Warrington is an ancient settlement on the banks of the River Mersey, a river that has served as a natural boundary for millennia to Celtic tribes, Romans, Vikings, and Anglo-Saxons. The cultures and languages have all left their mark on the town and, indeed, the dialect.
Growing up in Warrington in the 50/60s we all knew Divvy as some cash you received from the Co-op after buying goods. You gave in a number at the "till" and received a cash reward to this account.Like a small bank account. A completely different meaning!
Thanks, Sim. I actually think the most interesting of all the words you posted is "divvy". You can pretty much figure out where all the other words come from, but "divvy" is a tricky one.
If anyone knows the roots of this word, or anything about it's history, please post your comment here.
@Anonymous: "Divvy" having its roots in "deviant" does indeed make sense. I found an interesting definition on the Urban Dictionary (admittedly not the most reliable source), which makes a reference to the verb "to divide" from which we get the phrasal verb "to divvy up". http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=divvy&defid=1646823
@Gaynor: "Loosing" is a new one to me. I have never heard that before. We used to simply say "Home time"; nowhere near as interesting.
"Divvy"...as Gaynor said, short for dividend, or your share of the Co-op's profit. "He's a div"...meaning he's a mental defective, refers, I believe, to an inmate of The Deva, Chester's Psychiatric Hospital. More info.on the Deva ....http://chewy.cc/deva/
"Divvy"....short for dividend ie. your share of the co-op's profits. "He's a div"...refers, I believe, to an inmate or former inmate of The Deva Lunatic Assylum in Chester. During the first World War, when Winwick was commandeered as a War Hospital, the inmates were transferred to Chester.
Welcome to the discussion Totty. Great to have some more opinions on here! I can remember the co-op stamps you would get when you bought something "from't cwarp" as my mum would say. She would let me stick them in the stamp book. Was the stamp book something to do with the dividend? Also, the comment about the Deva Assylum is very interesting, and makes perfect sense. I liken it to the use of "Bedlam" for some sort of chaos. It comes from the Bethlem Royal Hospital for mental illness in London. Incidentally, Deva was the Roman name for Chester.
Hiya, I remember green shield stamps. They were given at certain shops and the amount of stamps you received depended on how much money you spent. we took in turns sticking them in a book and then choosing gifts from a small catalogue. I cant remember when they stopped this scheme but it was very popular. Divvy was money given as a reward for spending at the Coop(or Stores as we knew it then).You gave a number when you paid your bill and a small dividend went into this account.It was a nice little sum to receive.Mam sometimes withdrew ours at Christmas. Hope you keep contributeing Totty!
Its interesting how even local language changes. Donkeys years ago a Nob or Bulb would have been someone who didnt "have all his chairs at home". A few more words, Taterash: A stew. Prem: A meat like tinned Spam but sliced. Finnie Haddy: Haddock.
Does anyone know the origins of the phrase "barley ann day". Mam used to use it when we were down to leftovers for a meal. If you asked whats for tea she would say something like "Not much its barley ann day".
In the absence of further references, I would suggest that Barley Ann day refers to the food given to animals because barley is a foodstock used to feed animals. Maybe Barley Ann day means that there is so little food left that we have to eat the same food that the animals eat.
Some more words- Cullies - Marbles. Skenning - Staring at someone for a long time. Spanish - Liquorice(usually a strip) Gollies - Running shoes. Fliting - Moveing house. Bathers - A swimsuit.
Fantastic! Some familiar and some not. My older sister always said "cullies", but I always knew them as marbles. Spanish is a totally new one to me :-) The most interesting to me from these words is "skenning". These dialect words beginning with either the letters “sk”, or the sound /sk/ are very often Nordic in origin. I cannot find any similar word currently in use in the Nordic languages that would mean to stare (please correct me if I am wrong), but there could well have been a word that has fallen out of use or that was pronounced a certain way and has now changed considerably. These Norse-based words are quite frequent in the North of England due to the massive influx of Danish and Norwegian Vikings and their subsequent descendants. Even though the Vikings first arrived well over a thousand years ago, their linguistic, and indeed genetic, legacy is still with us.
Hiya Totty. Ive heard skennin used as squinting look or if someone had a lazy eye and it turned inwards you would say they were skenning.We were cruel!
More words- Mitherin - Pestering,asking for something in a continous whining way. Mothetten - Looking fed up and worried. Rormin - Spread out in a lazy way(on Chairs or floor) Meemoing - Communicating by mouthing words,either to keep a secret or over a distance.
Hi Gaynor. Thanks for the comments. Mithering is a great word, and it is one of the few dialect words I use with my own kids. Mothetten is an alternative pronunciation of Moth-eaten, which appears in many dictionaries with a slightly different definition of "old" or "a bit worn out". I have heard it used though as you describe. The most interesting to me has to be "rorming". I have been meaning to post something about this word for a while, and I have started many times but I cannot find any source to substantiate the word. The first thing to discuss is the spelling: I have no idea how it should be spelled! Rorm seems to be as good a spelling as any. I tried looking in dictionaries under "rawm" and "raum" but could find nothing. My understanding or rorm differs slightly from yours in that, to me, rorming implies some sort of movement; a kind of restlessness and a bit fidgety. My gut feeling is that "rorm" is a variant of "roam". Although at first it may seem that the two are unrelated, I see rorming as simply a kind of very restricted roaming. I was told as a kid to stop rorming on the bed, for example. To me it meant stop moving aimlessly and just lie there, that is, to stop roaming in a sense. The spreading out in a lazy way that you describe I would call "lolling". How do you understand "loll"? Does it mean something different to you? "Meemoing" is completely new word to me :-)
Ive never seen rorming written anywhere,but Mam used to say it to my brother,who could be nearly upside down on a chair!I found roarming which means severe.Lolling I think can be done anywhwere,maybe against a wall if youve been stood for a long time but again in a lazy way.So they are similar meanings. I asked Mam ages ago about meemoing.It was a way of communicating over the noise in the mills.
How about: Blindin: Great. Mooching: Looking and picking things up(Mooching around a jumble sale for example) Shape: Try harder (If you dont shape we will never get this done)
Great words, Gaynor! My Dad always says "shape" or "shape yourself". And also, "beltin'" or "a belter", for example, a new bike or something similar: "Eh, it's a belter in't it!"
Heres some more words- Luggy:Knotty or tangled."Let me comb your hair it lokks a bit luggy". Bagsy:To make a claim for."I bagsy the cream cake". Upkek:To knock over or spill."Look,youve upkeked the bucket of water". Scaggin:If you were playing rounders or cricket and you werent on the batting team and you werent bowling you would be scagging,meaning fielding. I think this is a good old word.
Hi Gaynor. I was looking through the old posts trying to catch up a bit now that I have more time. I was struck by the word "upkek". It is not very familiar to me, but I would definitely understand it in the dialect. It sounds very Scandinavian, and the structure is very Scandinavian, that is combining words like "up" and "kek" to form a new compund word with a different meaning. Do you have any more information on this particular word?
This was one of the words I heard regularly whilst growing up,from parents and gparents. I have looked on google but it isnt mentioned,but I notice in the Cheshire Dialect book it is listed as "Upkeck" with the same meaning.Also it mentions Keck as a seperate word,meaning "to make a vessel stand uneven". I will keep looking and let you know anything else I might find.
Hiya wirelector. Just going back to the word "Keck". I have found a completely different meaning on onlinedictionary.datasegment.com To heave,vomit retch.
Im beginning to feel like a stalker now,Robert.It would be great if others made an effort to contribute! More words: Clemned: Hungry. "Have some o this soup yer looked clemmned". Doins:An article. "Would you pass me the/that doins". Summatt: Something. "There must be summatt wrong with him.He s got a face like a busted golosher". Spek. A viewing place."lets go early,wil ger a good spek". Spek:By chance. "Lets gone on spek,they might have some left".
Some more words: Skewwift?: Crooked. "Would you straighten that tablecloth,it looks a bit skewwift" Snewin: Overrun,Swarming. "That back yard is snewin with ants". Scrattin:Scratching.
Hello there Wirelector - great blog idea you have here. As someone very interested in dialects, local cultures and human history in general (I recently studied it at UCL as well incidentally) I've often wondered to what extent there is a distinct Warrington accent, particularly having spent most of my time living away from it in recent years. I was wondering if you intend to categorise your findings/ people's submissions relative to where abouts in Warrington they are from, how old they are, and where there parents and even grandparents are from? In my attempts to get to the bottom of the subject I've found there to be variation depending upon the exact area - tending to be more Lancashire sounding in some places, more 'Manc' in others, and even with a bit of a scouse hint in certain places. Factors such as the large number of scouse 'expats' living in the area, plus the tendency I have observed among people of my generation (I'm 22) to speak more Mancunian because it's seen as more hard or cool, are some things you might want to consider. Class and even the type of music a person listens to can have an important effect I feel - many younger people have started incorporating more Jafaican/Multicultural Inner-City English terms into there vocabulary due to hip-hop/grime music and culture being present in the Media they enjoy. Just for the record I am a 22 year old male from Culcheth. Background wise my upbringing was definitely middle class in terms of wealth, but somewhere between working class and middle class in terms of the kind of cultural values I was infused with - did not get on well with most people at UCL for example, too poncey. I went to the local comprehensive and my friends were quite a socially varied lot. My Dad was from a poor working class family in the same village I'm from, went to the same school, 5 brothers and sisters, his mum was from Wigan (half Irish, half English background) and still speaks with a Wiganish accent, his Dad was from near Montrose in Scotland and still speaks with a toned-down Scottish accent. My Mum grew up in Glazebury from the age of 4ish and went to school in Cadishead and then Urmston Grammar. She her parents and her brother originally came from Heywood near Rochdale - her Dad was of English and Welsh descent (Methodist), her Mum of English and Irish (Catholic). She grew up in one of those 'new' middle class type families, of terrace house mill-town origins, that try to be well-to-do and are concerned with appearing 'decent' but are simultaneously quite down to earth. The area of Culcheth, whilst quite a nice, some would say posh, place, is a mixed income area and I grew up with people ranging all across the working class to middle class spectrum. There are rough areas as well as posh areas, and whilst you won't find any knife crime there are often punch ups and it's quite easy to get your head kicked in if not careful. I would say the accent is probably slightly more Lancashirey and less scouse than other bits of Warrington but it kind of depends upon the age/background/friendship groups of the people you speak to. Sorry for giving you the story of my life, I don't expect you to use all this information - was just using it to illustrate the many factors I believe to be of importance when looking at this subject.
I agree with you.You definitely hear more scouse accents around Warrington now. I would say since about the 70s. I think most of the overspill from L/pool came to Penketh/Gt.Sankey area. Will this,in time,change the Warrington dialect do you think? I have heard comments from people who dont live in Warrington and werent born here that our accent sounds more Mancunian overall,especially the younger generation. Different things are comming into their language.My son,who is in his twenties, says "Ma room" or "Ma coat".The a said as in man. I would have said "Me coat".His way of saying it sounds West Indian to me!
Cheers Gaynor. I don't know if it will change it or not really as I don't live around the areas with lots of scousers like Penketh or Great Sankey. I live quite close to Birchwood where quite a few got moved I think in the 70s but I've never really been on the lookout for any traces of liverpool before in the second generation 'immigrants' - I don't know anyone from there well enough to know if their parents are scouse or not to see if it effects the way they speak. I would agree with the Mancunian thing, me and all my mates would usually say 'ma' as opposed to 'me', though I like to throw 'me' in the mix occasionally. I genuinely hope Warrington does develop a distinct accent of it's own as it gets bigger and more economically important in the region; it's population and size has massively increased since the 60s/70s since it was designated a New Town so the current Warrington is still quite a young town in many respects. But yeah I hope it does become more distinct as opposed to just being absorbed in the expanding Manc/Scouse accent spheres like parts of Greater Manchester e.g. Rochdale seem to be doing gradually and St. Helens with the scouse accent. I mean who wants everyone to sound the same? Would be well boring. Interestingly something which may combat the growing homogeneity of English/UK accents is the recent announcement of new local TV stations http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/dec/13/towns-cities-local-tv-announced More likely though is that they'll just be utterly dire.
Thanks for replying. Yes its one thing noticeing the scouse/manc. accents its quite another to be able to see if there are any different phrases or sayings emerging to make any changes to the dialect. I was born and brought up (until the age of 5) a stones throw from the town centre going north.Then we moved to longford and now Padgate. As far back as I know all my family have lived and werte born within a half mile radius of each other(including grandparents x 3) So as you can imagine I grew up hearing all the words,phrases and sayings that I have put on Wirelect every day.
Thanks to Gaynor (as ever) for the contribution, and welcome, Azzdaprice, to the discussion.
To answer Azzda's question, it was my initial intention to categorise the various shades of dialect, but I will not be able to do that without having access to a much larger section of the Warringtonian linguistic landscape. There are simply not enough people active on this blog to produce any valid results. However, thanks to Gaynor's contributions, my own knowledge of the dialect, and other people's contributions, I intend to put together a short book including, at the very least, a glossary of dialect terms, some analysis and maybe a little history. It's great that you are interested, and if you can spread the word about the blog then that's even better. Right now, I am stretched for time with work and family, and I can't devote as much time to the blog as I'd like to. But please continue to comment and discuss anything related to the Warrington dialect :-)
There was a small article about the blog in the Warrington Guardian,that was how I got to know about it, so I will write to the Guardian to reccomend it. A few more people might give it a try.
Some more words: Brew: A rise and fall in a road or street: "Go t top o brew an yerll see the shop at bottom". Cadge: To get something for nothing: "Where did yer get that money.ave yer been on the cadge"? Clout: A smack. Do: A celebration: " I enjoyed the do last night. Ave gor a bit of an angover". Maulin: Messing with something: "Stop maulin that apple if your not goin to eat it".
Just a comment on the Warrington accent. I have always thought that generally it sounds closest to Salford/Manchester speech rather than to Leigh, Newton, St Helens, Widnes or Runcorn speech even though the latter are geographically closer to Warrington than Salford/Manchester.
What is a Warrington dialect. In my opinion it's how we speak today, which may not be how we spoke yesterday or how we will speak tomorrow. OK maybe not as drastic as that but you can see what I'm getting at. Our language as most people recognise is constantly changing and presumably so is our dialect and even our accent. So under those circumstances how is it possible to define a Warrington dialect, almost impossible I would say. What might be possible is to set a specific period, obviously within living memory, and to limit the research to those parameters. Because Warrington's population has expanded so rapidly since the creation of the New Town, finding Warringtonions of an age who can contribute to this means of communication is not going to be easy. Robert, you are going to need at least another 50 Gaynors to make your research worthwhile and comprehensive. But I wish you every success. Yorick
I have lived in Warrington for all of my 56 years and have considered it as a fairly neutral accent until I started work in Wigan and was amazed that Wiganers found me to have a strong accent, not the other way round. Words that were normal to me were unheard of to my new colleages 12 miles north. Examples are:-
Hiya TF. Im glad somebody else has hheard the word spanish, I was beginning to think I was imagining it! Chip shop was also known as chipper,like you say never chippie. Your a similar age to me, do you ever remember hearing the phrase "San fairy ann"?It was said to mean something didnt matter. Its been suggested that soldiers brought it back from France after the first world war, I heard regulary growing up.
Gaynor, your question about the origin of the expression 'san fairy ann'. It was a corruption of the French phrase 'ca ne fait rien' which meant 'it doesn't matter'. It was brought back by the British soldiers from the The First World War, along with many other words and phrases which arrived from the parts of the world where our soldiers saw action. Yorick
I wonder how many people realised they were speaking French?!I think jangle(to talk with friends/family)might be another french word then,comming from the word Jongleur(a minstrel or storyteller)What do you think?.
Some more words: Borrod: Borrowed."A borrod that scalf off'er last week,a'l ave t give it 'er back" Cheesecutter: A mans flat cap with a stiffer rim at the front. Butty: A sandwich. Char: Tea. "am lookin' forward to a cup o char" Dollop: A big pile of anything. "Al 'ave a dollop o custard as well please" Gawpin:Stareing with a daft expression,usually openmouthed.
Just returned to Wirelect after a few week absence, some fascinating stuff on here. Gaynor you repeatedly take me back to my childhood with that treasury of words which you keep remembering. I recognise all of them, many of which I had noted down intending to post them at my first opportunity. A variation on one of your words 'skenning', we used to call kids who (sadly) had occasion to look cross eyed, 'Sken a Ben'. I think there was a comedy film star from the old days whose eyes were like this. Here are a couple more which you may be familiar with, Conkering - going to collect conkers Nesting or Eggin - going looking for birds nests or eggs Going on Jungle - Very localised this one - it meant going to play on the waste land next to Bewsey School playing field, it now has houses built on it. Skinny - someone who wouldn't share things, and someone who was even worse was 'dead' skinny. The word dead could be used to emphasize any description. I could have kicked myself - frustrated with oneself. Umpteenth time - saying or doing something so many times you lost count. Cat Lick - a quick wipe with a wet flannel instead of a proper wash. I'm going Cworp - Usually when sent on an errand to the local Co-op shop. Going on Green - visiting the shops on Sankey Green Going Town or Going Up Town - Visiting Warrington town centre shops Going Pictures - Visiting a cinema, usually the Pivvy (Pavilion) Yorick
All these are dead good. Our very local saying was "Goin on Bricker"(Brickfield Park)Cworp was the Stores. we either walked or "Bused" it to town,but if you were telling anyone where you were going it was (and sometimes still is)up town. Some more words: Fast: Stuck. Lug hole/Lug: Ear.
1st of April. April Fool's Day or All Fool's Day, but when I was a little kid it was always 'leggin over day' until dinner time. Does anyone else remember this? Here's some more sayings from those days. Your talking Double Dutch - what your saying doesn't make sense. It's a Cake Walk - something is dead easy to do Sweating Cobs - in posh terms you are perspiring profusely for some reason. Yorick
Hiys Yorick We all looked forward to Aprils fools day as it got closer. I remember it being called "leggin over day",frantic leggin over early on then more tactical for a better leggin up as the morning went on.I think playing tricks became more popular as we got older,but leggin over and tricks only happened until dinner time like you say.Im wondering if leggin over could have been unique to Warrington.My husband who lived in frodsham and preston brook has never heard of it. I dont think leggin over is still done is it?
I have never heard of "Leggin' over day". To me, the 1st of April is always called April Fools' Day. The pranks or tricks were supposed to be carried out up to 12 noon. After 12 noon, the person playing the trick became the fool, but the name of the day did not change. I did a bit of Google research, and found out that "Legging up" is not restricted to Warrington, although it may well be a Northernism. I have found two separate blog posts from individuals in Hull who remember April Fools' Day as "Legging Up Day", but only after 12 noon! The "legging up" referred to the act of tripping someone up by sticking your leg out, obviously only carried out by school children (I hope). So far,I have not found any other references to legging up. I noticed Yorick refers to it as "Legging over", whereas Gaynor called it both "Legging over" and "Legging up". I would be interested to know if there is a difference between the two.
I dont think there is any difference.I noticed my brother used both terms when I was talking to him about it. Different people I have spoken to remember the day differently.Some say leggin over till dinner(12noon)and then tricks.Others remember it the other way round. I keep laughing to myself at the thought of adults just randomly leggin each other over on the day.Just my daft sense of humour.
Great word! I'd forgotten about that. My Dad always called the Mersey mud "slutch". The word seems to be a dialect version of the standard "sludge", which is defined as the semi-solid material left from industrial wastewater, or sewage treatment processes. Phonologically, sludge and slutch are what are known as a "minimal pair". This means that they differ by only one sound (technically called a phone). The difference is in the "dg" and "tch" bits of the words. The "dg" sound is voiced, which means that your vocal chords vibrate when you make that sound. The "tch" sound is voiceless, which means that your vocal chords do not vibrate when you make that sound. Try it! Put your fingers on your throat and say the words separately. You can feel the difference. Most languages have minimal pairs, and English is full of them (pin, bin; let, lit; hot, pot; etc). My feeling is that "slutch" conveys a clearer sense of what the mud sounds like when you walk in it, and in that sense could be described as onomatopoeic, or a word that sounds like what it is or does.
Have just been trying to analyse the sludge/slutch usage. Although I have not used the word slutch for many years, I think I would differentiate the usage by saying that you might see the sludge or mud, but it was only when you got it on you, either shoes or clothes, it became slutch. For instance if as a kid you came home from playing football on a muddy field, your mother would say "where have you been you're covered in slutch". Maybe slutch was a word to cover all types of 'muck' without getting to technical. Yorick
We do a lot of country walking so I use both words on a regular basis! Ill say my shoes are slutchybut a country path might be just one long dollop of sludge.
New word, at least I don't think I've seen this one on here. Perhaps time for an index Wirelector. Skidadle (never sure about the spelling of some of these words) - To leave quickly, perhaps after being caught doing something wrong. Yorick
Hiya Yorick, Thats a good word, along the lines of beat it,get lost or leeggin' it.Prefer Skidadle though. Heres a few more words: Mug: Face. Vext: Upset. "Av just seen er. she looks proper vexed about what you said" cock: a term of endearment: "Hiya cock,are yer alright".
Here are some more words.Im sure most of you will remember them: Pinny: Short for Pinafore,a dress which usually went over a blouse or jumper. Or a garment used to work in.My Mams were always flowered. Maiden: A clothes airer. Cack:Poo,Faeces,Shit,whatever you want to call it! Wom?: Home. Campion: Great,beltin,smashin'
I know there are not many of us contributing to this blog, but does anyone remember the following kids games that were played at least 65 years ago in my case. Kick can alerky - You placed a can at the junction of two 'backs', then the person who was 'on' had to try and find other kids who were hiding and race back and touch the can before the one he had found. If he managed it then the other kid would take over being 'on'. However if while he was searching someone could sneak in and throw the can up the backs, they would shout 'Kick can alerky' the 'on' kid then had to retrieve the can and continue to search.
Another game that was very popular was called ' I call' Someone was selected to hold a tennis ball and stand with their back to the other kids, (no limit to the number playing). The kid with the ball would then shout 'I Call' and everyone would respond with 'Who do you call' They would then shout out a name and throw the ball over his or her shoulder towards the other kids. If the person named could catch the ball before it hit the ground there would be no change in the thrower, but if they didn't catch the ball they would be the next person 'on'. By the way this game tended to be played in the street as there was more space available. Another variation of this game could be played by throwing the ball at a gable end. Until of course the householder came out and shifted you.
There were activities which mainly involved girls such as skipping, they seemed to know endless rhymes to skip to. Plus their speciality, tossing up the wall with their skirts tucked in their knickers and sometimes doing the 'crab' For boys there was 'trundles'. The best ones belonged to kids whose dad worked at Whitecross Wire Works, these were made of several strands of twisted wire and were much lighter and more flexible than the solid steel type.
These were just some of the games that were played, certainly some of these have disappeared forever, sadly along with the pleasure of bringing together groups of children who shared the experience. Yorick
Thanks Yorick. The names of games can often be really old. Could you explain a bit more about "trundles". You didn't actually say what they are. Thanks.
Hiya Yorick.I can remember all of the games you have mentioned except "I call".We all played "Kick can a lerkry" but I think the girls tired of it qucker than the boys(but I think this was some sort of ploy on the boys'part).Trundles was sometimes played with old bike wheels and I remember the girls playing it with hula hoops.It was extra skillfull if you could get a good spin on it at the start by hand so it would come back at you to get a good start with the stick. Other games were "London bridge"(mostly girls),"Two or double balls" played against a wall,"Farmer farmer","Jacks","Kiss chase"...... They did bring all the kids together in a way you dont see today,but I suppose kids socialise in their own way which I think is leading to a loss of verbal communication.
does anyone remember getting their legs 'scutched' when skipping? My dad was an electrician so I skipped with cable and that gave you a good 'scutch' if it caught your legs!
Hiya. I dont remember the word scutched.I do remember that sometimes the ones "turning up" used to "fudge". In other words they would suddenly turn the rope slowly so you got caught in it,so then you would have to "turn up" after a lot of arguments! Fudge was also a cheating action when we played cullies.
Hi Wirelector Sorry to leave you in the dark (thats a phrase isn't it) about trundles. These were similar to hoola hoops but made of what could be best described as wire rope of about half inch diameter. Some were made of solid steel rod but of a smaller diameter. The hoop itself was approximately two feet in diameter. The idea was to set the hoop rolling and then to maintain its forward motion with the aid of an iron rod with a hook on the end which engaged with the hoop but did not stop it rolling forward. Various moves could be made with the trundle once it was rolling, including pulling it back whilst still rotating. Normally you just ran round the backs and streets with your mates seeing who could keep it going the longest. I hope that description makes sense. Like all kids games of that period, all activities were seasonal, you seemed to play certain games at certain times in the year. In summer you would play until it went dark and you were called in for bed, unlike young children of today there were very few distractions indoors. With regard to trundles Warrington kids probably had a great advantage over other towns as we had at least four major wire producing companies in the town which provided a ready supply of top quality trundles. Occasionaly you will see illustrations of children playing with hoops but I have never seen them described as trundles in publications. Perhaps it is a Warrington word. Yorick
Hiya Yorick. Ive recently learned that the rhyme to the London Bridge game goes back to when the Vikings destroyed the bridge. Learn something new every day!
Here are some more words which have been used in more recent years: Manky: Dirty,sticky.. "Change yer shoes,they look a bit manky". Ace: Great,brilliant. "Your new car is ace". Mucker: Friend,mate. "Hiya mucker,how yer doin'". Flushed: Having more money than usual to spend. "I'll get the drinks in" "Bloomin' eck you must be flushed".
Heres some "delicacies" that I ate growing up in the 50/60s: Tripe. Pigs Feet/Totters. Cow Heel. Sav'ry Ducks. Neck End. Oxoin hot water with pieces of bread in it(50's Pot Noodle!) Beef Dripping on toast(only at the weekend) Sauce Butties. I wonder how many of these the kids of today would eat? I liked them all.
Hiya, (Alls quiet on the western front) I dont think any of the following words have been mentioned: Caper: A lot of things. "On this blog we talk about words,language and all that caper". Rush: Cost. "How much did that rush yer?.It looks lovely". Tidy; A lot. "Ten bob!,thats a tidy sum fer summat like that" Bob: A shilling(old money) Tanner: Sixpence piece. Two in a bob.
Hiya everyone. Hope everyones having a good summer,even in a wet Warrington! Heres some words Ive not heard for ages but all cropped up again recently: Puddled: daft. "Look at what he is doing.I think hes a bit puddled". Rigout: New clothes. "Its me cousins weddin' next week,Ill 'ave to ger a new rigout". Bugalugs:A term of endearment. Orlez,not sure if thats the right spelling: Always. "Hes orlez goin' on about 'is new car" Mon:Man. Some Warringtonians will remember Gartons near the river at bridge foot.when we were growing up we noticed that reading it backwards it spelled "snotrag". It seemed hilarious at the time.
Hiya. Heres a few more words: Wench: A young woman. Float: Move or get going. "Can a have a piece 'o that cake Mam? "No. Not yet,float" :-) Melt:This ones difficult to explain. I suppose you could call it a term of endearment.What do you think?If Dad was teasing Mam she would say "Give over yer daft melt" or if anyone had done somsthing silly,usually said to an adult,"Oooh look what yerve done,yer daft melt"
Its just crossed my mind,with so few comments on the blog,is this the modern version of talking to yourself?:-)
Hi Gaynor. I know it may feel like you are talking to yourself, but rest assured, I am listening and I really appreciate every comment you make! I'm trying hard to get more people interested in the blog, but it is up to individuals to decide whether they comment or not.
Hi Gaynor Have just come back on the blog after a couple of months absence. No I've not been 'inside'. It's great to see you are still contributing so much. Nearly all your words are so familiar to me even the 'Garton's' one. When I hear them I am immediately transported back to those childhood days when these words and phrases were a major part of everyday conversation. I have just come back from a few days spent in Leek in Staffordshire, where every other person seems to call you 'Duck', I suppose in Warrington we might have used 'Cock' or certainly 'Luv', but it does illustrate the essence of dialect. Yoric
Hiya Yorick. I enjoy contributing to the blog although I do find it very different talking to people when you cant see them or hear the tone of voice.Maybe thats because I have only just started using the computor. Staffordshire is a lovely part of the country.We do seem to go through the full spectrum of farmyard animals in our language!Cock.Hen,Chick,Duck,Cow etc.Some of them we dont want to hear!Saying that,Cow is becomming a term of endearment now in some parts of the country isnt it.
Hi Gaynor Sorry but I only know 'cow' in it's derisory sense, as with 'bitch'. I suppose the usage is to some extent based on a persons visual perception of the animal and whether it is flattering or otherwise. Talking about the difference between spoken and written communication, I totally agree with you, You would immediately notice the difference between my attempt at 'standard English' on this blog and my Warrington accent/dialect in face to face chat, and especially if watching the Wires play. Yorick
Hiya Yorick. Perhaps term of endearment is pushing it a bit for "cow".maybe its becomming more widely used so is accepted more,like bloody or Jesus Christ. Spoken and written communication is obviously different between friends as well. They know when you say things in jest and know how you mean things in general. I hope this makes sense!
I'd add Jiggered :- exhausted A total confusion and mix up of lend and borrow as in "can I lend your bike" Thrutch....to move along a seat with standing up Dint - a dent
Mention of the word slutch (ie sticky foul smelling mud) made me think about the origins of slutchers lane...
Hiya. I have nver heard of the word thrutch.We used to say "budge up". This was moving along a seat or "form" :-) on your bum. I must admit Ive benn guilty of saying "Could you lend me your...." When I thought of this another turn around of words came to my mind.Itch and scratch. Some people now say "I must itch this scab,its driving me mad" Another one is the use of yes and no which I find really strange. For example:"Yes,no your right".
Slutchers lane is a really old part of town isnt it. As far back as I remember its always been slutchy,but as long as we dont go too deep into it we should be alright.(sorry bad joke).
I don't know if it's a Warrington dialect word, or if I had trouble pronouncing it when a toddler and never changed the way I said it. But I used to call my grandmothers "graamar".
The only local bit might be that I would have pronounced the "aa" in a northern accent.
I know a lady whose nickname is "Neet" because her sister couldnt pronounce Anita. This probably happens a lot, in which case the question is: does it have any wider effect?
Hiya David. I also used to call both my Grandmothers "graamar". Then the name "nanna" came into use.I dont remember nanna being used by anyone when I was young.
I had an Auntie whose name was Elizabeth Ellen which for some reason became Gellin(pronounced as in hair gel)Then the next generation called her Auntie Gel. This got me into trouble once at school but its a long story. Oooh go on then youve twisted my arm,get your tea and biscuit At primary school (aged about 8/9) a few of us sometimes stood round the teachers desk to "discuss" a topic. This days was relatives Teacher: Right Clarke G.(there were that many of us) who are your Aunts? Me: Me Mams or me Dads sisters sir. Techer:You mean my Mothers or Fathers sisters. Me:(looking at him blank)I thought you said mine sir. Techer:(exasperated) Name yout Aunts. Me: Auntie Eva,Auntie Alice.Auntie Olive,Auntie Nelly,Auntie Sally,Auntie Winnie,Aunt Marie,Auntie Polly,Auntie Gel... Teacher: Stop! Hold out your hand.(Followed by a smack on my hand twice with the ruler. Friend:She as got an auntie Gel sir. Teacher: She was going to say jelly. The injusice of being smacked is why I remember this incident. I suppose it has had a wider effect,but not the way we are talking about :-)
Hiya David. One change that has occured with names is that in recent times names that used to be "nick names" like Jack(John) Joe(Joseph) Kate(Katherine) etc. have slowly come to be used as christian names in their own right. I wonder what will be the next change?
You could also add Katy to that list. My little niece and nephew have both got Biblical first names. My sister is having another baby and they don't knowm if they'll continue this.
I love the way small children mispronounce certain words. My niece loves to use the word squiggle for squirrel, although I don't suppose her nursery school teachers particularly appreciate it.
Hiya David. When Wirelector mentioned "slothering" on another page the word "slavver" came to my mind,which has a similar meaning to "slather" or "slobber". In my family it usually means a baby drooling. Mind you we have'nt kept dogs for years.
I agree children do use some funny words. My niece used to say sodish for sausage and my son sais heep for sheep. A relative of mine calls his gran mama.
Hiya Wirelector, heres a few more words. I dont think theyve been mentioned before.
Bleedin'/Bleeder:Used as an expletive, a bit like sod or get(but sounds worse I think). Spliced:Married. "He's nervous,hes getting spliced tomorrer". Feared:Frightened. Agen:Against. "She's courtin' that fella from across road. Her mams dead agen it" "Stop leanin' agen that table,yer'l upkeck it". Dip: Any sauce or gravy. Jessey:A man acting soft or weak. "Put yer back into it, yer can move that yer jessey" Perishin': Cold. "Bloomin' eck its perishin' outside" Traips:To walk slowly or a long walk. "that hill walk is goin' to be a bit of a traips" "Our Gay must be traipsing behind, lets wait here".
Hi Wirelector. I remember the word "lozzock", as in "Stop lozzocking around and get something done". Perhaps used in the same sense as "lounging" around. Not heared anyone say it lately though.
A word I heard recently that I havent heard for ages:Nazzie: Angry/irritable. "Me mam must be gerin better,she got nazzie today". Narked: Similar to above. Lip: Giving cheek. "Ay,less of yer lip,yer not to big fer a layin' on". Stail/steyl?: Wooden handle of a brush or mop. Twerp:Somebody behaving in a silly way. "Stop throwin' that water about,yer twerp". Bumbaylies: Baliffs. They put your furniture out in the street if you werent paying your rent,telling you to move out. Ive seen it happen a couple of times! Bluebottle: a fat shiny blue fly. (not heard that word for ages). Clink: Jail. Glonder: Product of a spit.
Lozzock is a good word. Along the same lines as rorming,lolling,raunging. Could have a scale of lazziness!
I know,its disgusting. I was in two minds whether to mention it but I thought I would get it off my chest. I hope you found that play on words more amusing than gross.
When I was posting the word "rorm" I asked my hubby how he would spell it. He had never heard the word before and said his mum would say raunge to mean the same thing. Google mentions raunge as an old form of the word range/rangeing. Which I suppose makes sense with rangeing over an area eg raunging over a sofa. Its a word I havent heard of until recent years. I have also heard the word rangey as meaning somebody's build:long arms and legs.
Hi Gaynor, or should we call you Guinevere of which Gaynor is the medieval English form. Have you really been around that long? (only joking, no offence intended) By the way 'clink' originates from the London prison which I think was situated adjoining the river of that name. Yorick
Hiya Yorick. No offence taken:-) Guinevere, a lovely name with a touch of mystery and two men at her beck and call!
I didnt know there was a prison called the Clink. I thought it was a term for any prison just because of all the clinking noises when you were locked up. It came to me when you mentioned in another post that you had been away but not "inside".
Chewy: Chewing Gum Red Raddle: A red polish used to put on bricks round the front door. P.O.: My Mams version of p*** off. Thats the nearest she came to swearing and had to be very angry to say it :-)
All of my grandparents have passed away, as has my mother. So that resource is denied to me, vis-a-vis words and phrases in Warrington. However, my paternal grandmother was from Biddulph, just over the border into Staffordshire, and they call each other "duck" i the way we would say "love".
When I was at University in Plymouth, from '92 to '95, my accent made me stand out (can't remember if anybody picked up on my dialect, though). People's geography was often a little vague, and I was once asked if Warrington was near Birmingham.
People genuinely have a set of stereotypes when it comes to the North, and it isn't much of an exagerration to say that they imagine it to be terraced housing from coast to Pennines.
Hiya David. We visit Staffordshire and Derbyshire quite a lot and hear the word "duck" used in both places. Sometimes an s is added "There you go me ducks" Even though they are still speaking to one person.
In the 70's I used to work at Nestle near Winwick. They had offices and depots all over the country so there was a mixture of southerners and northerners working together. A friend and colleague was trnsferred from Carshalton in Surrey up to Warrington. He found the accent very difficult to understand,but also found some of it amusing,like the short a in basket. He(and the other southerners) said "baaaarsket". If we said something like "bloomin eck" he was lost. Of course we all merged together in time, but we seemed to understand them from the start better than they understood us.
Then there were the people from north lancashire. Everything was "Reet nice". When we answered the phone though we all sounded the same! It was great :-).
My understanding is that posh accents and Received English only came to the fore with the rise of the public school system. Prior to that, the rich people in an area spoke like the commoners. And that, because public schools were overly represented in the Home Counties area, that why thet version of English became the "Received" one.
I studies Italian for a while, and that's a language of myriad dialects, many of which are mutually incomprehensible. Apparantly, it was only with the rise of radio and televison that Standard ittalian - that of the Tuscany region - became as widespread.
Thats interesting David.I always thought accents were just a merge of incommers and locals over time regardless of wealth. I am definitely no expert on the topic! So people thought because they were educated they spoke better than everybody else,mmm.
Gaynor, it's also because the Court i.e. of the King/Queen, settled down in the London/Home Counties area. For years and years, the Court moved around the country.
Monarchs of old, such as the infamous Richard III (who was the victim of Shakesperian black propoganda, by the way) would have spoken with provincial accents.
Incidentally, my glasses need fixing, which goes a long way towards explaining my atrocious spelling.
Hiya David. All very interesting and getting the old brain cells working:-). Looking back it was nearly always the teachers from down south who pulled us up on our accent. I'll believe you,thousands would'nt. I blame the slip of the fingers:-)
Here are a few more words: Aunt Sally: A versatile household cleaner. My elder sister assures me thats what it was called. Blackin': Black shoe polish. Fast: Stuck. "'av got me scalf fast in door". Fib: Lie.
My Dad sometimes uses the word "fizzgigging", to mean messing about, but he doesn't know whgere it comes from.
Similarly, he told me that my paternal grandmother used to use the word "mollygogging", although I couldn't pin him down on what it meant. As she came from north Staffordshire, though, this may have been a word from there.
Never heard these words before, they sound straight out of a Charles Dickens book. Good words arent they? One word that sounds similar is "mollycodling", used to mean your over protecting someone,usually a child.
Wirelector sometimes mentions how language changes over time. We were walking in shropshire this weekend and staying B&B at a pub. When we went down for tea at about 5.30 it was always busy. I commented to my hubby that they seemed to be doing good business. I couldnt believe my ears when he replied "Yes, but they seem to have a quiet window about 7". I think he's been "getting down" with our sons friends too much :-).
Seg: Hard skin on the hands or feet. Perished: Very cold. "Should we go in?, its perishin stood out 'ere". Bawl: To shout/cry. "No need t bawl at me, am only 'ere". Hawker; A rag and bone man/person who sells things from a cart.
Here's a thought. The western parts of Warrington have Liverpool-influenced words. The eastern parts have a more Manchester/Lancashire influence. That's because of their relative positions, vis-a-vis our metropolitan neighbours.
What about the North-South divide? I'd guess that most middle class families live south of the Ship Canal. I'd also wager that a significant part of the disposable income in Warrington is found south of the Canal. Does this create a difference between them? Leaving aside the demographics of the relative populations, I would further guess that Cheshire influences the way people talk south of the canal. One thing I could imagine being the case is more words related to a farming lifestyle, as opposed to industrial related words to the north.
A very interesting point, David, and something that I would like to explore further.
Although, I think we have to be very careful with the word "class". It has so many connotations attached to it, and people react in different ways to it for there own different reasons, all of which are equally valid.
The North/South divide does interest me in terms of the influence of the Lancashire and Cheshire dialects respectively, and indeed the river and later Ship Canal have acted as a dividing line.
I think your premise is worth exploring here on the blog. I'll post it on the front page and let's see what responses we get.
It would be interesting to see if there are any differences between language usage south of the river and north of the river.
My reading of it is that the history of Standard Italian is significantly different to "Standard English" and that this has an enormous effect on local dialects and the stronger they are.
This would suggest that the later a "Stndard" language develops, the greater the differences between dialects.
Class,snobbery,having lots of money all these things are linked but dont necessarily all come together. I think the following occurrences are relevant so I'll mention them. In the mid fifties my mam and dad wre uprooted from the community they wre born and bred in,grew upin and married to a modern housing estate in the north of Warrington.Mam especially was affected by this. There were abusive rows and foul language in the street on a regular basis.Mam ould bring myself and brothers inside on these occasions. Was she being a snob because she didnt want her children open to this behaviour? A lot of the neighbours thought so. As time went on this opinion persisted because we all got jobs. Not everybody was the same,we had some good friends,but it was there.A few other families wre thought of in the same way. Around about the same time I had come home from playing a netball match with the school team against a school on the south side(didnt realise the difference at the time)and related a story to my mam about one of their girls making fun of our skirts and saying we must be poor.It had driven at least one of our team to tears.Mam asked"Well, did you think their skirts were better than yours?" I replied "No mam" "Well there you go" Dad said "Dont let anybody let you think they are better than you" Thats always stuck in my mind. On a lighter note there was also what we now call "The something on a tray tea" The youngest of my brothers came home from a friends house in Winwick and announced that he had had "Something on a tray for tea" In my mind in registered as "Something" on a tray. In Mams it was "Something on a tray" Mam said "What did you have on the tray" I piped in "No mam weve got t guess" Dad looks up from the paper and says "It doesnt seem as though anybobdy knew" We all laugh and mam walks out muttering "Something on a tray,tut,no wonder they've got money". So at what age do you become aware of this division in class/money? More important I think is does it bother you? A lot of people,no matter where they live,think they have more dispoable money than they have but its only a credit card.
I know a few rural sayings.My hubbys mum says them quite often.She lived in cheshire for a long time.They might not be totally correct but here goes:
Oak before Ash you wiill only get a splash. Ash before Oak youre going to get a soak: Connected to the amount of spring rain expected. That apple hasnt fallen far from the tree: A family likeness. If cows are lieing down its going to rain.
I seem to have rambled on. I hope I havent bored everybody silly.
Sorry to hear of your family's bad experiences when you moved to (north) Warrington. I grew up in that part of Town and there were some "rough" characters.
I don't really know anybody south of the Ship Canal that I can talk to about how they speak. My Dad worked for most of his working years at Rylands Whitecorss, and there vmay be some language they used which was associated with the wire industry.
No need to be sorry David thats just how things were.Thanks to our lovely Mam and no nonsense Dad we somehow kept on the straight and narrow.It certainly was a rough area and I wonder if there were any like thes areas south of the border.I doubt it somehow. I think things have changed slightly though over the years. I think more affluent areas have been built here. Has more affordable housing been built in the leafy lanes of south Warrington? I'll go and have a look :-).
Gaynor, my landlord is Warrington Housing Association, and they have some social housing near Ackers Pit and some part-bought properties in Appleton. Sometimes, in order to swing a decision, developers will pledge to build some social/affordable housing....perhaps some of the developments South of the Canal have included that.
Gaynor, I've always felt that people commit the crime they can do. So an unemployed, working class teenager from a council estate, may only be able to shop lift or mug an old lady. But a middle-aged, middle class accountant or company director can engage in white collar crime. Bigger rewards and less chance of getting caught.
I also reckon that anti-social behaviour manifests itself in the posher parts of Warrington. I was mates with a guy who was a Warrington Borough Transport bus driver, and he regularly did the route into Town from Stockton Heath on Friday and Saturday nights. He got so much grief from young people who got on.
So I'd guess that there are rough types in Appleton and Walton, say, but they're better dressed, speak nicer and look less threatening. And that if they do act badly, it doesn't necessarily rebound on them as badly. As Benjamin Franklyn said: "Laws like to cobwebs catch small flies, great ones break them before your eyes." Hooray Henrys are an extreme version of this.
The difference with working class areas is that the urban environment and factors such as poverty and unemployment increase this tendency in people so there may be more of them but they're certainly more obvious.
Wirelector is quite right to point out that class can be an emotive word, and must be used carefully. I meant it in the more neutral context of life experiences. Health, education, income and occupation, quality and type of housing whether rented or owned)have effects in all sorts of ways.
Happy New Year everyone. This is my first venture into the blog of 2013. Have been fascinated by the conversations of Gaynor and David, we seem to have representatives of that other group you haven't yet mentioned, the 'intellectuals', only joking. However the discussion of class, geographic origin and local dialect brought back memories of my forcible entrance into the Royal Air Force at the age of 18 to carry out my National Service, what a culture shock that was. A more diverse community for a lad from Warrington I could not imagine. Looking back it couldn't have happened at a better time, in many ways stood me in good stead for the rest of my life. What a great opportunity Wirelector missed. Yorick
Hiya Yorick. Happy New Year to you too. My oldest brother would have totally agreed with you. He really enjoyed his time in the Army.Also sais my other brothers would have benefited from it,but not in those words!
I was involved with community radio - and before that hospital radio - for a decade or so. In that time, I picked up terms for different things which the lay public wouldn't have known (even if they knew of the existence of something.
A good example of this is "voicetracking" which is pre-recording and "RSL" which stands for Restricted Service Licence and means a short term FM broadcast. Anybody in the business should be familiar with the technical terms.
It's the same with other jobs, I presume. Doctors, solicitors, architects etc would have a language of their own, from which - I would imagine - words would leach out from their circle of co-professionals into their everyday usage with friends, family and neighbours. Assuming this to be true, then that would apply to any type of employment.My sister and dad have picked up some of these terms from me.
If we accept for argument that most professionals live south of the Canal, and most manual workers - of whatever industry - live north of it, then that fact alone would have some influence of the way people speak in the Town.
Naval terms have had a huge influence on everyday English, so I wouldn't be surprised to find out this supposition was true.
Both my maternal grandparents worked at Walkers brewery for years, but have passed away so I can't ask them. But I'm going to ask my dad, and an ex-colleague of his from Rylands - if they know of any.
My mam worked for many years at Armitage and Rigby(or Cockhedge Mill as it was sometimes called)and, as it was useless to try and shout over all the noise, would "meemow" or mouth words to communicate. She still did this for many years later when communicating over a distance to neighbours. Maybe we could call this an unspoken dialect :-). People still do it in quiet places and locally I still hear the word.
Yorick mentioned the word "trundles" a while ago.These things were made in the wire works and gave their name to a childrens game of the 40/50s. Some had the good luck of having the proper thing(a round metal wheel)others used anything that would roll.
My parents often used the phrase "on bobbins" especially when the clock wasnt working properly. "That clocks on bobbins,its 10 minutes fast". This sounds as though it might be an industrial term. Anybody know?
I would guess that bobbins is a cotton or wool factory term. Armitage and Rigby was but the last of many cotton factories in Warrington so it would seep out into wider usage. We are supposed to have produced half of the sail cloth on the British ships at the Battle of Trafalgar but the American Civil War and the embargo on cotton ruined most of the cotton businesses in Warrington.
My family have also used the term meemow, but in the context of somebody complaining incessently or talking rubbish.
I did ask my dada if he could remember anything from his time at Rylands but he couldn't. But I'll ask him about trundles.
I would think the word "brew" as used in "the tea's brewing" must come from the beer industry (brewing beer). In other words fuseing. I have been researching my family history recently and came across the word "scutch",which has been mentioned on another page. In this case it was mentioned in connection with the treatment of cotton just before the spinning process and means to scrape or beat. It looks likely that this is where we get the word from meaning to scrape the skin or shoes.
Slopstone: A shallow stone kitchen sink. Most terraced houses had these. Gawmless/gormless?: To be a bit slow witted or have a vacant look. "Oooh,dont look so gormless. D' yer know where it is or dont yer?". Smartin': Stinging: "Ave just burnt me 'and and it isnt 'alf smartin'. Gnat: A flea. Wag: To play truant: "Am goin' to wag school this mornin', its double maths". Eshes: Ashes: "Its your turn t' tek the eshes from grate"
Hello Gaynor, You keep using a word which has its roots in 20,000 American servicemen at Burtonwood. The word is Hiya, which has now become Hiyoh,got any gum chum? Lancashire dialect is well ingrained in warrington folk.I went from Dallam Shed (after the close of steam)to work in London. People made fun of the way I said Noooo (no)
A few thoughts.Self examination of the way we says things becomes quite amusing. have you ever said"Eezz adit,ant-te or "Chuck it up ere" or the conotations of "hey-up" depending on the intonation of the voice.or "K,t stayt on im" or "Wiz gewin fer uz tea" or long words like "Gerroffit" or "Thesnewtleftferuz"I have a friend in Sutherland (Highlands) who is amused by the way I say "plum" like " Cum" and say things like Eeeee I doont know or Eeee wara mess!
Hiya Brian (I might say howdy but that does'nt come natural :-). If we think about it the Americans brought a lot of words into our speech. Some,like swell or so long soon died out again. Hiya,see you later (I think thats an example)etc are still with us,plus I suspect many more recent ones.
Looking at all those words you have mentioned (are'nt they great?) I am hoping we have'nt completely "flumoxed" the people who are reading this blog in other countries and hope they are finding it all fascinating. I dont think of the Warrington accent as being strong Lancashire but recently I was visiting family in the Wirral and after speaking to one of the neighbours for a while she commented on my "lovely Lancashire accent". What a compliment!
When I first met my husband I said something like "It's eezz"(it's his).He found it most amusing.
Here is a phrase that might be connected with the soap industry: To soft soap: To speak in a coaxing soft way to get your own way.Just like the slippery quality of the soap. Mam used to say to Dad "Dont bring yer soft soap 'ome wi' yer" This was when he was trying to use the coaxing method for somethingHe worked at Crossfields.
Nip/Nippy: To move quickly: "Would yer nip t shop before it closes" "Eez nippy 'e got back in no time" Nippy: Cold. Gollop: To eat quickly: "Stop gollopin' yer food yer'l feel sick" Twicer: A duplicate,usually something you collect: "I'll swap yer this one its a twicer" Nobby: Nick name given to males with the surname Clark/Clarke. A name for a bowler hat that clerks used to wear.
Hello Gaynor, Do you know if the term "mucker"meaning mate, has its origins in Warrington or is it from some other place.A man from Widnes once expressed surprise that someone called me "Mucker" fancy calling somebody muck, he said. My dear old Gran used to say to us "si-thee" which meant,watch it or take note!not as in yorkshire Ahl-si-thee. gu-t,shop fera dolly blue, an bringmit change or-else yerv adit chum!
I first heard the term "mucker" in the 1970's and have never heard it outside Warrington. Its a male thing to say,thats because of the sound and references of the word I imagine. Just could'nt imagine a woman saying it to another woman somehow. Cant remember ever hearing "si-thee" to mean watch it. I always heard "think on",meaning think about it. Chum is a word I never heard used in our house or the neighbourhood. Did you have American relatives Bryan :-)
Great to see a new name in the discussion. Thank you for contributing, Bryan, your comments are most welcome!
I've not heard "mucker" anywhere else, and I agree that it is used in the male domain. My Dad and I often call each other "mucker" or even just "muck" :-)
"Si-thee", is very interesting.
I've not heard it before, but it immediately brought to mind the Norse connection. There is a theory that our greeting, "hey up" (pronounced, of course, without the "h") is derived from the Norse "Se upp!", which means "Watch out!" It is not a great leap from "se" to "see", and as we have discussed in earlier posts, the middle English "thee" is still used.
Incidentally, "Se upp" is still used in modern Swedish. For example, at railway stations in Finland, painted on the platform is the equivalent of "Watch out for trains". First in Finnish, "Varokaa junaa"; and then in Swedish, "Se upp för tåget".
Hello Gaynor & Tim, I do not have any American ancestry, as far as I know,but my Dad was retail manager at the PX Burtonwood and came home in a van with USAF on it and brought us yanky comics which we swaped in the street. I have started listening to how people speak (not wishing to be nosey) I was in Sainsburys the other day looking at the chocolate. there was a lady in front of me with two children who were taking things of the shelves, she said "Purum back,yer nor avin em" Its get very intrestin when yer start, t, tek nowt ow folks talk,duntit?
Hiya Bryan. It certainly does. Compare that conversation with one two teenage girls wre having sat behind me on a bus: 1st: "I saw "im at bus stop and I was like Oh my God he's gettin' on bus" 2nd: No way! 1st: Yeah. An I was like hes well fit.An he went "alright" an I went yeah,sound.... I must admit I had to smile.
We seem to replace "t's" with "r's" in words dont we? Gerrit , purrit, lerrit. purum, gerum, lerum. Also: Duntit, Wuntit, Antit, Intit, Wantit.
Not posted for a while becauuse the credit on my dongle has run out....I keep meaning to top it up but other stuff keeps whispering in my ear asking for my cash!!
I've never used the word Mucker myself, but have heard it used by others. I read the posts here and sometimes I don't know the word and sometimes I think "Yes, my family has used that." But prior to reading it it just never occured to me that it was dialect. Wirelector made that point in our interview. I would imagine that's the case when something is so familiar....you don't notice it.
Some more thoughts on "Mucker" I read the interesting comments by Wirelector concerning the word "Mucker" In my experience it usually means "mate" or as has been stated to help out "muck in" In my time at Cricklewood diesel depot and St Pancras I do not recall the term being used, mind you, its a long time ago.The first world war term from the trenches "Up to my neck in muck and bullets"may also be relevant in this case.Interestingly Websters Dictionary 1996 gives Mucker as being A course rude person which seems to be derived from "Muck" meaning moist manure,a nasty mess: filth.......dear me!
One of my pet hates is being called mate. Does anyone know anybody who calls a woman mate? Two of my neighbours (one man,one woman) and a guy at our local does it! I suppose it could be worse,it could be mucker.
Bo-Boze: Sleep: "Cum on it's time yer was goin' t' bo boze". Peggies: Teeth: "Look at them luvly peggies" Gee gees: Horses: "Lets go an 'ave a look at the gee gees in that field". Also some adults might say "I'm goin' to 'ave a bet on gee gees". Doe doe": Dummy: "Eez cryin', he wants 'is do do" Booteeze: A knitted shoe for a new born baby. Chucky egg; Hens egg: "Du yer want a nice chucky egg fer yer tea?"
Hello Gaynor Iya orraht? My mum used t,give me egg butties fo me t,tek t,werk.They wuz orraht fora bit burra got fed up with em after a bit.Av yer eva had sugar butties or bread an drippin? have yuou ever heard this expression: Get thee clogs on, thes trouble at mill.Not erd s,much these days.Q.where was the last Lancashire clog shop in Warrington?
Ye,fair ta middlin'. I always remember the smell of egg butties when they were unwrapped.Like sweaty socks. I like mine soft boiled on butties (lovely). I've never had sugar butties,never had a sweet tooth as a child,always went for the savoury option. I loved drippin' on toast,served by my dad on Sunday morning,remember them well :-). Another thing was oxo in boiling water with bread in.Used to have that while waiting for the taterash to cook.
Thats a good question Bryan. I first thought of Naylors,but remembered they sold toffees and cheesy biscuits.He was called toffee Naylor. Then three of us thought of Gandys in Mersey Street,then "dirty Dicks" in Pinners Brow where my dad used to buy our clogs. I didnt remember wearing them but I am told by my sister that I did. So,with a little bit of help and because it was a family business, I am plumping for Gandys in Mersey Street.
Hello Gaynor, I think it was Gandy's in Mersey St. My Mum wanted me and my brother t,stay school dinners.(oakwood) but we said "Orr Mum they av taterash every day at school an tappioca fer afters" So we went t,me Grans instead, cos she gave us chips an egg on Tuzdys an plumb duff an custad fer afters what stuck t,yer ribs.An sumtimes we ad hambone soup, eee, it were gradely. Gaynor, did you know anyone that worked at Rylands Battersby Lane?
Taterash was one of my favourite meals,especially with red cabbage. We also went to our gran's for dinner in the last year or so of primary school(Silver Street). She used to make a stew which my cousin could'nt stomach because there was always fat on it.We always ate it so my cousin always gave my brother something,maybe some cullies or a good conker,to finish it for him. We seemed to eat anything,anytime.My mam said "yer must 'ave bellies like middens".
Yes, I did know a fella who worked at Rylands.He is in his early sixties and I think I know you Bryan :-).
Hello Gaynor. I went to the AGM of Woolston Horticultural Society last night.Three ladies sat at my table,(one a teacher) I listened to the converstation and the dialect,it was very interesting listening how words were pronounced.The teacher who had been sent to elocution (Did I spell that right?)spoke with a more precise english but I could still detect words like cum (come) dun (done).Later the conversation went to the Lancashire & Cheshire border and came round to dialect after I mentioned WIRELECT.The teacher mentioned "Glottal Stop" and I said "thats the second time I've heard that word,she proceeded to explain its meaning, it proved a very interesting evening.
Are you Battersby lane Gaynor or Gaynor who's husband is called Les?
I have read about the glottal stop somewhere.Its prominent in the northern accents and is connected with the "t" and "th" and also end of words ending in "t". Maybe wirelector would give an explanation.I know I would ramble.
I am neither of the above Gaynors' Bryan. If you are a builder you rebuilt a wall for us "yonks" ago. We live off Padgate Lane.My hubby's name is Tim, he comments on the blog sometimes.
More words: Mopesing: Looking miserable."Wots she mopesin' around for?" "'ave told 'er she cant go out til shiz washed up"
Flummoxed: Confused state: "'am gerrin in a right flummox over this form 'ave got t fill in.
Hello Gaynor & Tim, Eee,me build wall,iz it still standin? Warra t,doo. Why are functions refered to as a "doo"It were a beltin doo! Ar yer avin a doo? Eez gone t,thingys doo. Shurrup an stop skrykin (be quiet and stop crying) Ezz gone ome yellin. (he's gone home crying) We have had Palarva, but what about malarki.Lets ave none ov yer malarki. Gaynor & Tim, I am 65,still working in a local school as a TA two days a week (The oldest teaching assistant in the town, I think! Ask wirelector for my Email address if you would like to converse, no prob!
"A do" and a "t do".Its interesting how two similar sayings can mean completely different things. Gerrin dolled up ter gu t a "do".Meaning a celebration or party. A "t do" meaning a rumpus/argument or messy situation. Malarki's a good sounding word.To me it has a similar meaning to palarva.Maybe the word lark(having a lark) in it is connected to the meaning as well. Sounds a bit Irish too.
That wall is still standing Bryan after 25 years. Do you remember building it?.
Hello Gaynor. Jus gorrin from school.I happened to be on the bus today in the course of my work and overheard the man in front on his mobile phone: "Ah, sed t,wife". and "Am ont bus" More short T words:T,morroh,T,daay.Tuther.Get t,top ov it. Stop it words: "Giveover" "Jus chuck it" "pakitin" "tha,rl doo" "Eenuffs eenuff". Parking Problems:"Ooz iz that car"? Ee wants gerrit shifted" 23 years at Thorn Cross (Works dept) 4 years at a certain school in Padgate =27 I would like to speak to you and Tim if pos.
Topical dialect. The weather. Rain; Its chuckin it down. Its cumin down like stair rods (Does anybody have stair rods these days) Cumin yer dozy crow, y,l get soaked wiz rained off, lets gu t,cabin. It allez raains on walking day. Sun shine: (In short supply) Eee, its crackin the flags Its boilin ot out ere. Eee, its a gradely day. Cold weather; Eee, its freezin Am chilled t,bone Its proper parky. Its reet kewd That wind cuts yer in arf duntit. Said today by a neighbour "Hya Bry,this global warmin stuff is rubbish, its keeps missin Warrington duntit? Hi Gaynor, I remember the 1963 winter,the snow blew undert front door an never meltid. all we ad wuz a coal fire and the gas stove.The windez froze on the inside an me Mum uzed t,purra hot brick wrapped in a tea towel in our bed.
Hiya Bryan. We have just got back from "that London",talk about accents/dialects bloomin' eck every one under the sun.
Winter of 1963,now thats what you call a winter:-)Good old days? Dead good words above describing the weather. Also,"Yer cud fry eggs on them flagstones". "Its a lazy wind that,it guz right through yer"
Here are some more words:
Doddle: Very easy:"Am makin' a meal o this.It should be a doddle.
Rigmarole: A lengthy procedure: "It shud 'ave bin a ouick talk.Instaed wi gor all this rigmarole about war 'appened at last meetin".
Hello Gaynor My Mum had a whole vocabulary of strange words and sayings, here some of them; Stop pidling & podling, ((aimless messin about) Don't be morky (Walking about with a face on) Q, whats that for Mum. A, layholes for meddlers. meaning;mind your own business. Who ar you talkin to, the cats auntie? Scrape it up and scrape it back, wi short ov nuthin wiv got. Q,Whats for tea Mum? A,rush an fancy or three runs round the table & a duck on a butt. Threats for being naughty; Y,l av me in the woorkhouse Ship Collio (I never knew where that or what that ship was) Al,send y,t, padgate cottage homes.(Strange, thats roundabout where I finished up working) Yer,l gerra gud iddin in a bit.
Mechanical failures. Its adit. Its gon t,pot Its onits last legs Its kaput (German) Its packed in (Or in the case of leaving the job) Eez pactin
Hiya Bryan, I have'nt heard the word "Butt" (short for butty/sandwhich)for ages. One of my brothers still uses it. We had a similar saying in our house for scrape it up etc.,it was "Spread it/slice it thin,we've got company". My Mam used to say this when we had unexpected visitors for a meal but did'nt really have enough to go round. Another saying was "Yer'l 'ave me in Winwick". This was said if we were "mithering" a lot. Winwick was a hospital for people with mental health problems.
"Who's she the cats mother":"That piece 'o bread was mine an she's just pinched it" "Who's she cat's mother?"
Ship Callio has been mentioned before. I think Yorick said it was a ship where young offenders were sent for rehabilitation. Google gives varying locations. So if you knew what it was it was a good threat :-)
Hello Gaynor, Sat talking today with someone I know about tomato plants,he said "Eee tuk the uff cos ah did'nt giv im any" (Tomato plants) Has this expression been mentioned "Tuk thee Huff" (took the huff) Not quite the same as "Threw iz dolly out" which I think is a bit stronger.There is also "Eez pullin iz face"or sulkin.
Good old sayings those Bryan. One of my favourites is "Gorra face like a busted glosher" meaning the same thing.
When I was a lollypop lady the children used to say some amusing things.This conversation took place one afternoon after I had been to a dear friend and neighbours funeral: 1st.boy; "Where was yer this mornin' Miss?" Me: "I 'ad ter go to a funeral" 2nd boy:(to his brother)"Wot wud thee want a lollypop lady at a funeral for?"
Hello Gaynor, I know that this is going off the track a little but I am 66 next birthday and during my part time work at the school in Padgate, a child said to me "How old wuz you Bryan when the Titanic sank" It killed me pig!
Hello again Gaynor, I have just been on the phone talking to my grand daughter,she is 7 and I was quite amused listening to her conversation. "Lottie has bin messin,we went t,the park with Mummy an she threw a paddy an wunt do wat Mummy sed" Things to throw, Chuckin duckies Chuckin allsorts at uz Chuckin it down Throwin a paddy Throwin a wobbler
She sounds like a typical 7 year old Bryan.Did you tell her to stop "snitchin'?". I have thrown a few "strops" in my time and Dad used to chase me to throw a slipper!
A few more words people might recognise:
Ditherin': Shivering or being indecisive. Noddle: Head. Slurin': Slideing (usually on ice) "Snows froze on path. Wi can 'ave a glood slur on it". Diddle: To cheat someone. "A think a was diddled when a bought this,its fallin' apart". Chops: Mouth: "baby must be teethin',she's gerrin a proper slaver chops". Swelterin':Feeling very hot. Chocker block. Crowded.
Hello again Gaynor. I went on line to see if I could find a pair of Lancashire clogs.It brought to mind this expression which you don't hear so much these days. "Iz face ed stand cloggin" I'm not quite sure what the meaning of the expression is.I don't think it has a violent conotation.I have also heard it put like this "Eee, ited stand cloggin" What duz tha think lass? Now there is a word not heard so much these days. Lass, short for lassie. Our lass, meaning my wife or daughter at home. And not forgetting; She's a lassie from Lancashire
Hello Gaynor, Untidy places: Its like a tip in ere. Warra mess,its like Hobly's yard Its like the Hobly's in ere.
Where was the Hobly's?
Maybe this belongs in Warrington history, I tried to explain to a delivery man where a certain house was. I said "its at White city" Older Warringtonians know exactly where that is, but this man did not.That led me to use a word which has now been corrupted. I went on to say, "there's a sort of "Bonk" with some houses on, just before you get to the M62 roundabout. A bonk when I was younger was a piece of raised waste ground. Do you understand it to mean that? "Eeez bin playin on the bonk"
Did you get your clogs?:-) It was'nt unusual for men to mend shoes at home when I was growing up.Dad used to have a last stuck in a stump of wood,put it between his legs and nail on the leather he had cut.I used to love watching him. Maybe that has something to do with "yer face ud stand cloggin'. Someone who is hard faced and cheeky and not very sensitive. My brother in law is from Yorkshire and calls all the females in our family lass. I said he chose the rose with the blush.
We came to the conclusion that 'obleys was a place where homeless men used to be able,for a small amount of money,have a bed or at least a roof over their head for a night. I think it was near where the salvation Army is. So you can imagine all the mess and "pong" with the commings and goings.
Yes I know White City. All the houses used to be painted white, up bonk on side o' winwick road. You dont hear it called that now do you?
Hello Gaynor, We had missiles in our vocbulary before Saddam watsits. "Wat d,yer think o this? scud intit? I've gorra last in me back gardin stuck in a bit o telegraph pole. I used to watch my Grandad mend his shoes in the back kitchen at Cornwall St.He never tukem t,menders.He liked his ale anall.He would send me Auntie Jean t,king & Queen with a pop bokkle fer a pint ov bittoh.
Blackboard rubber. Chalk. Slippers. Stones off bricker. Sods of grass. Slice of bread and marg.A threw one once at me brother.'it 'im right in "dial".Well, I 'ad t stand me ground. Mam told us off fer wastin' bread.
My sister used to take a jug to a local shop to be filled with stout for my gran. She did'nt like going "I 'ated smell of it". So shops selling beer is'nt a new thing.
Hello Bryan and Gaynor. My parents are currently visiting me in Ireland, and I have cornered them about some of the stuff you are talking about. Here is their input: "Bonk" - a sloping piece of wasteland "White City" - white-painted houses built for employees of Winwick Hospital
Av erd yerin Eyeland, well worrabout this! Eyeland has the worlds smallest city an the worlds largest city. Abet yer didn't know that did yer, Ner-ner-ni-ner-ner
We have mentioned "white city" on the blog,a name which seems to have faded into history. It made me think how many other names have gone the same way. Here are a few I can think of:
The borough: Warrington General Hospital.
The Stores: The Co operative Society(Co op)
Pig Hill: Now Town Hill.
The Monner: An incline Near The Gospel Hall near Hale Street.
The Iron Bridge: A foot bridge over the railway line near Mill Lane, Winwick.
Places; The raller= the railway The gullit=A path running by the railway The bullet= The RAF firing range at Padgate Lost valley= The space between the CLC railway at Padgate junct. Poddys= A scrap yard at Orchard st The Stinker= Sankey brook Grannies= padgate brook Turkey Jacks= A farm or area close to Padgate camp Winwick drag= vroooom! Pin barracks= Peninsular barracks,HQ South Lancs reg,
Wages. Pin money; from the low wages paid at the pin factory in Latchford?
I heard these yesterday. Fone fo me taxeh Eee, my giddy aunt! A little girl bounced up to me on Friday at school annd said: Bryan, Bryan, Its fancy dress next fridie an yoove got t, cum as a bus driveh????
Today (Sat) whilst talking with my daughter I said " Did yer know that Sophiz courtin" My daughter said "Courtin" thats an old one Dad.
Well you can't dissapoint her Bryan :-) Get t that fancy dress stall in market!
Courtin' is an old word but you still hear it quite a lot. Yesterday I was talking to a neighbour and he asked how our son was "keeping" and had we heard "the sound of wedding bells yet".My hubby said "Just a tinkle".
Going back to buses,a question for you Bryan(or anyone else) What would you have if "you'd gorra twenty oner"?
Scented sooup, (Soap) I like scented sooup,I like scented sooup Since scented sooup was sent to me I've bean as clean as clean can be I like scented sooup as in my bath I frolic So if you send me any sooup Don't send carbolic.
One my Mums daft songs which she passed on to my children. I,m not sure how to change the sound of the vowel "O"in the word soap to bring out the lancashire dialect so I added the vowel "U" to make it a long "o" I know from my wee bit of German that an "Umlaut" or two dots above the vowel can be added to change the vowel sound but i don't think we do that in English Any road, Wirelector will know warra meen, an show uz.
Get rubbin wi that Donkey stone, Ahl be inspectin y,step when ah cum past your ouse on me travels. ooow
A couple of playground songs (not to sure about the spelling):
This one was sang as a skipping song:
On a mountain stands a lady, who she is I do not know, All she wants is gold and silver, all she wants is a nice young man, So call in... (no boys played so you just called the next girl's name that was next in line). For some reason we sang that song quite posh.
This song was sang either skipping and the rope was turned "peppers" or playing two balls against a wall:
One,two.three allerra. I saw my sister Sarah sitting on a bumbleera. One,two,three. Different actions had to be done with your body and the balls each time you sang it without dropping a ball.As it went on it could look quite impressive :-)
Hello G&T I can remember girls singing skipping songs at Oakwood Little black doctor, hows your wife. Very well thank you she's alright
And another, If you miss a milligate you'r out. Sang whilst running in and out of the turning rope. I can't remeber all the words but I think there were a lot more.
On Saturday I went to Myerscough college for the meeting of FORL election of officers and committee.(I wuz elected t,committee agen)I was asked by the secretary to say "St Helens" he laughed and said "You sed Sintelens" thats propoh Warrington he said. now gerra load o, this, the government seem to be moving towards the re-establishment of the traditional county boundaries.All them ez want t, be livinin in Spud land berra start thinkin ov movin overt Mersey, coz we don't want em in clog land.
Hello Gaynor, To the best of my knowledge, or shud a say nollige. The is no potato variety called Cheshire.I will stand to be corrected, but I think thats the case.They are first and second earlies with various names. So if you plant them in your gardin in Warrington they are Lancashires.Its just that they grow yards of em in Cheshire as well as other things.
Hiya Brian, Spuds do have loads of names,never grew them at home until Dad had more time on his hands so always knew "new potatos" as Cheshires(which used to be dead cheap on the market).Never called the ones we grew Lancashires just "new potatoes". May be they were given the name Cheshires to sound more countryfied and appeal more to us townies.
Hello Gaynor, Lets face it tayter, avan idea that there's a bit o, snobery involved all this Cheshire tripe. A lorra my towns folk iz gerrin or av gorra bit peas above sticks over this mix up with the county boundaries.But the truth come out when they open their mouths, For example, Warrington: Hiya Deb,ar yer cummin up town t,market t, get sum spuds, quick gerront buz an lets be doowin. South of the Mersey: Oh, hello Penelope, how are you?is Percy well? I say, here comes the Wilmslow bus shall we go to town and buy some jolly old new potatoes, oh I do hope that they have washed the soil off them, i can't stand the thought of that horrid soil being on my new gloves. You are quite right Gaynor about the the first earlies being called "New potatoes"As I remember the chipchops used to put their prices up because they said they were new potatoes.
I Laughed out loud when I read your comparison.Its the first time I've heard snobbery and taters mentioned in the same breath :-). Those of us born in Lancashire know who we are and are proud of it.Other people are proud of their roots. It does grind when some folk talk in that affected way,it takes standard English to another level!It's so over the top you can't take it seriously. Dont get cynical Bryan.We know our boundary :-).
Do you say bus or buz? Do you know what you'd have if you had a twenty oner?
Spoke to our son the other day on skype(I.T. skills on the up) I asked him if he still wrote for two websites. He replied "Only via twitter like". It sounded strange to think he would say "like". Wheres that from?
Eee, gaynor am not gunna get clinical,I never duz.Fact iz sum folks gets historical wen yer tell em that they downt live in spud land. Did you know that that them little uns as is born in Warrington north of the Mersey iz Lancastrians.
Hi Gaynor You keep asking Bryan about a 'twenty oner' but he's not taking you up on it. If you asked me, I would say a conker, but I can't remember owning one that was that good Yorick
Yes a twenty oner could have been a conker.Your conker would earn more points as destroyed others and also took any points the loser may have had(thats how I remember the game anyway). This twenty oner is on the buses theme we were talking about.Thats a clue :-).
Remember when there used to be clippys on the buses? They would click in your fare,twirl a rotating handle on the side of their machine and a ticket would appear off a continuous roll of paper. On the ticket there was a set of numbers(4 I think). If these numbers totaled 21 we children called it a twenty oner and it was considered lucky. Some of us collected all the twenty oners we got.It was also another thing to swap or give to a best friend.
Hello gaynor Thanks for the reminder, bus tickets, eee, I downt noow.We used t, fold them and blow down the an mek a orrible row.If you got ont bus at when the conductor was changin iz ticket reel y,could get the old reel wiv a red line down the middle I have a bad time with this site.Sometimes the cursor does not work and I can't back space or I loose it all together. And sometimes everything disapears from the box.
Lost expressions Years ago the Redifusion man came from Wigan to mend our telly.He asked my Mum what piggin meant because he said that in Warrington folk used the word quite a lot, like "the piggin telly's broke"I think it was a sort of soft explietive. What do you think Gaynor? Naughty boys; Eez a likkle newt! Eez a badun eez a likkle monkey
Hiya everyone. Here are some more sayings relating to "build":
'Eez gerrin' that tall 'eez outgrowin' 'is strength".
"Yer that thin if yer turn sidewards an stick yer tongue out yer'd look like a zip".
'Er bum's that big yer cud use 'er knickers fer sails"
"eez that thin if 'e was goin' over a grid eed fall down it".
"Shis gerrin like side of 'ouse".
Farm yard animals' names do seem to be popular as terms of endearment and explietives dont they Bryan. Pig,Cow,Duck.Chicken,Chick,Cock,Hen(further north I think).Piggin was used more often in the past I think. "Get" is another word along the same lines which has become more acceptable. Our neighbour had been waiting for ages for his landlord to come and replace his windows. He said "E 'as'nt shown 'is face yet,the get".
Donkey's years - something or someone very old
ReplyDeleteted - means nob ed or divvy
ReplyDeleteTube - as a above
stain - as above
bulb - as above
Growing up in Warrington in the 50/60s we all knew Divvy as some cash you received from the Co-op after buying goods. You gave in a number at the "till" and received a cash reward to this account.Like a small bank account. A completely different meaning!
DeleteDivvy is slang for dividend.
DeleteThanks, Sim.
ReplyDeleteI actually think the most interesting of all the words you posted is "divvy". You can pretty much figure out where all the other words come from, but "divvy" is a tricky one.
If anyone knows the roots of this word, or anything about it's history, please post your comment here.
I can still remember my mum's Divvy number and it is short for dividend. It was the forerunner of loyalty reward.
DeleteDivvy a deviant or defective
ReplyDeleteloosing: Ending or finishing for the day. As in "schools loosing".
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comments!
ReplyDelete@Anonymous:
"Divvy" having its roots in "deviant" does indeed make sense. I found an interesting definition on the Urban Dictionary (admittedly not the most reliable source), which makes a reference to the verb "to divide" from which we get the phrasal verb "to divvy up". http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=divvy&defid=1646823
@Gaynor:
"Loosing" is a new one to me. I have never heard that before. We used to simply say "Home time"; nowhere near as interesting.
"Divvy"...as Gaynor said, short for dividend, or your share of the Co-op's profit. "He's a div"...meaning he's a mental defective, refers, I believe, to an inmate of The Deva, Chester's Psychiatric Hospital. More info.on the Deva ....http://chewy.cc/deva/
Delete"Divvy"....short for dividend ie. your share of the co-op's profits.
Delete"He's a div"...refers, I believe, to an inmate or former inmate of The Deva Lunatic Assylum in Chester. During the first World War, when Winwick was commandeered as a War Hospital, the inmates were transferred to Chester.
Welcome to the discussion Totty. Great to have some more opinions on here!
DeleteI can remember the co-op stamps you would get when you bought something "from't cwarp" as my mum would say. She would let me stick them in the stamp book. Was the stamp book something to do with the dividend?
Also, the comment about the Deva Assylum is very interesting, and makes perfect sense. I liken it to the use of "Bedlam" for some sort of chaos. It comes from the Bethlem Royal Hospital for mental illness in London. Incidentally, Deva was the Roman name for Chester.
Hiya, I remember green shield stamps. They were given at certain shops and the amount of stamps you received depended on how much money you spent. we took in turns sticking them in a book and then choosing gifts from a small catalogue.
DeleteI cant remember when they stopped this scheme but it was very popular. Divvy was money given as a reward for spending at the Coop(or Stores as we knew it then).You gave a number when you paid your bill and a small dividend went into this account.It was a nice little sum to receive.Mam sometimes withdrew ours at Christmas. Hope you keep contributeing Totty!
I've added this blog to my reader, Gaynor, so should be popping in when any new posts!
DeleteKaylied ,,, to be drunk
ReplyDeleteIts interesting how even local language changes. Donkeys years ago a Nob or Bulb would have been someone who didnt "have all his chairs at home". A few more words, Taterash: A stew. Prem: A meat like tinned Spam but sliced. Finnie Haddy: Haddock.
ReplyDeleteGreat stuff, guys. Keep 'em coming.
ReplyDelete"Kaylied" and "Tater ash", I haven't heard those for years :-)
I'll do some digging and try to find some references for them.
Does anyone know the origins of the phrase "barley ann day". Mam used to use it when we were down to leftovers for a meal. If you asked whats for tea she would say something like "Not much its barley ann day".
ReplyDelete@Gaynor
ReplyDeleteThe only reference I can find to Barley Ann is a photograph of some Barley heads. They are called Barley Ann heads.
http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-1553620/stock-photo-barley-ann-heads.html
In the absence of further references, I would suggest that Barley Ann day refers to the food given to animals because barley is a foodstock used to feed animals. Maybe Barley Ann day means that there is so little food left that we have to eat the same food that the animals eat.
I bet thats it. Meaning a very basic meal(as in the top of the corn not even the grain)
ReplyDeleteSome more words-
ReplyDeleteCullies - Marbles.
Skenning - Staring at someone for a long time.
Spanish - Liquorice(usually a strip)
Gollies - Running shoes.
Fliting - Moveing house.
Bathers - A swimsuit.
Fantastic! Some familiar and some not.
ReplyDeleteMy older sister always said "cullies", but I always knew them as marbles.
Spanish is a totally new one to me :-)
The most interesting to me from these words is "skenning". These dialect words beginning with either the letters “sk”, or the sound /sk/ are very often Nordic in origin. I cannot find any similar word currently in use in the Nordic languages that would mean to stare (please correct me if I am wrong), but there could well have been a word that has fallen out of use or that was pronounced a certain way and has now changed considerably. These Norse-based words are quite frequent in the North of England due to the massive influx of Danish and Norwegian Vikings and their subsequent descendants. Even though the Vikings first arrived well over a thousand years ago, their linguistic, and indeed genetic, legacy is still with us.
Skenning in our house referred to squinting.
DeleteHiya Totty. Ive heard skennin used as squinting look or if someone had a lazy eye and it turned inwards you would say they were skenning.We were cruel!
DeleteMore words-
ReplyDeleteMitherin - Pestering,asking for something in a continous whining way.
Mothetten - Looking fed up and worried.
Rormin - Spread out in a lazy way(on Chairs or floor)
Meemoing - Communicating by mouthing words,either to keep a secret or over a distance.
Hi Gaynor.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comments.
Mithering is a great word, and it is one of the few dialect words I use with my own kids. Mothetten is an alternative pronunciation of Moth-eaten, which appears in many dictionaries with a slightly different definition of "old" or "a bit worn out". I have heard it used though as you describe.
The most interesting to me has to be "rorming". I have been meaning to post something about this word for a while, and I have started many times but I cannot find any source to substantiate the word. The first thing to discuss is the spelling: I have no idea how it should be spelled! Rorm seems to be as good a spelling as any. I tried looking in dictionaries under "rawm" and "raum" but could find nothing.
My understanding or rorm differs slightly from yours in that, to me, rorming implies some sort of movement; a kind of restlessness and a bit fidgety. My gut feeling is that "rorm" is a variant of "roam". Although at first it may seem that the two are unrelated, I see rorming as simply a kind of very restricted roaming. I was told as a kid to stop rorming on the bed, for example. To me it meant stop moving aimlessly and just lie there, that is, to stop roaming in a sense. The spreading out in a lazy way that you describe I would call "lolling". How do you understand "loll"? Does it mean something different to you?
"Meemoing" is completely new word to me :-)
Ive never seen rorming written anywhere,but Mam used to say it to my brother,who could be nearly upside down on a chair!I found roarming which means severe.Lolling I think can be done anywhwere,maybe against a wall if youve been stood for a long time but again in a lazy way.So they are similar meanings. I asked Mam ages ago about meemoing.It was a way of communicating over the noise in the mills.
ReplyDeleteHow about:
ReplyDeleteBlindin: Great.
Mooching: Looking and picking things up(Mooching around a jumble sale for example)
Shape: Try harder (If you dont shape we will never get this done)
Great words, Gaynor! My Dad always says "shape" or "shape yourself". And also, "beltin'" or "a belter", for example, a new bike or something similar: "Eh, it's a belter in't it!"
ReplyDeleteI like beltin/belter. I think blindin is more recent.
ReplyDeleteHeres some more words-
ReplyDeleteLuggy:Knotty or tangled."Let me comb your hair it lokks a bit luggy".
Bagsy:To make a claim for."I bagsy the cream cake".
Upkek:To knock over or spill."Look,youve upkeked the bucket of water".
Scaggin:If you were playing rounders or cricket and you werent on the batting team and you werent bowling you would be scagging,meaning fielding. I think this is a good old word.
Hi Gaynor.
DeleteI was looking through the old posts trying to catch up a bit now that I have more time. I was struck by the word "upkek". It is not very familiar to me, but I would definitely understand it in the dialect. It sounds very Scandinavian, and the structure is very Scandinavian, that is combining words like "up" and "kek" to form a new compund word with a different meaning. Do you have any more information on this particular word?
Hiya,
DeleteThis was one of the words I heard regularly whilst growing up,from parents and gparents. I have looked on google but it isnt mentioned,but I notice in the Cheshire Dialect book it is listed as "Upkeck" with the same meaning.Also it mentions Keck as a seperate word,meaning "to make a vessel stand uneven". I will keep looking and let you know anything else I might find.
Hiya wirelector. Just going back to the word "Keck". I have found a completely different meaning on onlinedictionary.datasegment.com To heave,vomit
Deleteretch.
Im beginning to feel like a stalker now,Robert.It would be great if others made an effort to contribute! More words:
ReplyDeleteClemned: Hungry. "Have some o this soup yer looked clemmned".
Doins:An article. "Would you pass me the/that doins".
Summatt: Something. "There must be summatt wrong with him.He s got a face like a busted golosher".
Spek. A viewing place."lets go early,wil ger a good spek".
Spek:By chance. "Lets gone on spek,they might have some left".
Some more words:
ReplyDeleteSkewwift?: Crooked. "Would you straighten that tablecloth,it looks a bit skewwift"
Snewin: Overrun,Swarming. "That back yard is snewin with ants".
Scrattin:Scratching.
Hello there Wirelector - great blog idea you have here. As someone very interested in dialects, local cultures and human history in general (I recently studied it at UCL as well incidentally) I've often wondered to what extent there is a distinct Warrington accent, particularly having spent most of my time living away from it in recent years.
ReplyDeleteI was wondering if you intend to categorise your findings/ people's submissions relative to where abouts in Warrington they are from, how old they are, and where there parents and even grandparents are from? In my attempts to get to the bottom of the subject I've found there to be variation depending upon the exact area - tending to be more Lancashire sounding in some places, more 'Manc' in others, and even with a bit of a scouse hint in certain places.
Factors such as the large number of scouse 'expats' living in the area, plus the tendency I have observed among people of my generation (I'm 22) to speak more Mancunian because it's seen as more hard or cool, are some things you might want to consider. Class and even the type of music a person listens to can have an important effect I feel - many younger people have started incorporating more Jafaican/Multicultural Inner-City English terms into there vocabulary due to hip-hop/grime music and culture being present in the Media they enjoy.
Just for the record I am a 22 year old male from Culcheth. Background wise my upbringing was definitely middle class in terms of wealth, but somewhere between working class and middle class in terms of the kind of cultural values I was infused with - did not get on well with most people at UCL for example, too poncey. I went to the local comprehensive and my friends were quite a socially varied lot.
My Dad was from a poor working class family in the same village I'm from, went to the same school, 5 brothers and sisters, his mum was from Wigan (half Irish, half English background) and still speaks with a Wiganish accent, his Dad was from near Montrose in Scotland and still speaks with a toned-down Scottish accent. My Mum grew up in Glazebury from the age of 4ish and went to school in Cadishead and then Urmston Grammar. She her parents and her brother originally came from Heywood near Rochdale - her Dad was of English and Welsh descent (Methodist), her Mum of English and Irish (Catholic). She grew up in one of those 'new' middle class type families, of terrace house mill-town origins, that try to be well-to-do and are concerned with appearing 'decent' but are simultaneously quite down to earth.
The area of Culcheth, whilst quite a nice, some would say posh, place, is a mixed income area and I grew up with people ranging all across the working class to middle class spectrum. There are rough areas as well as posh areas, and whilst you won't find any knife crime there are often punch ups and it's quite easy to get your head kicked in if not careful. I would say the accent is probably slightly more Lancashirey and less scouse than other bits of Warrington but it kind of depends upon the age/background/friendship groups of the people you speak to.
Sorry for giving you the story of my life, I don't expect you to use all this information - was just using it to illustrate the many factors I believe to be of importance when looking at this subject.
Hello Azzdaprice (A great name)
DeleteI agree with you.You definitely hear more scouse accents around Warrington now. I would say since about the 70s. I think most of the overspill from L/pool came to Penketh/Gt.Sankey area. Will this,in time,change the Warrington dialect do you think? I have heard comments from people who dont live in Warrington and werent born here that our accent sounds more Mancunian overall,especially the younger generation. Different things are comming into their language.My son,who is in his twenties, says "Ma room" or "Ma coat".The a said as in man. I would have said "Me coat".His way of saying it sounds West Indian to me!
Cheers Gaynor. I don't know if it will change it or not really as I don't live around the areas with lots of scousers like Penketh or Great Sankey. I live quite close to Birchwood where quite a few got moved I think in the 70s but I've never really been on the lookout for any traces of liverpool before in the second generation 'immigrants' - I don't know anyone from there well enough to know if their parents are scouse or not to see if it effects the way they speak.
ReplyDeleteI would agree with the Mancunian thing, me and all my mates would usually say 'ma' as opposed to 'me', though I like to throw 'me' in the mix occasionally.
I genuinely hope Warrington does develop a distinct accent of it's own as it gets bigger and more economically important in the region; it's population and size has massively increased since the 60s/70s since it was designated a New Town so the current Warrington is still quite a young town in many respects.
But yeah I hope it does become more distinct as opposed to just being absorbed in the expanding Manc/Scouse accent spheres like parts of Greater Manchester e.g. Rochdale seem to be doing gradually and St. Helens with the scouse accent. I mean who wants everyone to sound the same? Would be well boring.
Interestingly something which may combat the growing homogeneity of English/UK accents is the recent announcement of new local TV stations http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/dec/13/towns-cities-local-tv-announced
More likely though is that they'll just be utterly dire.
Thanks for replying. Yes its one thing noticeing the scouse/manc. accents its quite another to be able to see if there are any different phrases or sayings emerging to make any changes to the dialect. I was born and brought up (until the age of 5) a stones throw from the town centre going north.Then we moved to longford and now Padgate. As far back as I know all my family have lived and werte born within a half mile radius of each other(including grandparents x 3) So as you can imagine I grew up hearing all the words,phrases and sayings that I have put on Wirelect every day.
DeleteThanks to Gaynor (as ever) for the contribution, and welcome, Azzdaprice, to the discussion.
DeleteTo answer Azzda's question, it was my initial intention to categorise the various shades of dialect, but I will not be able to do that without having access to a much larger section of the Warringtonian linguistic landscape. There are simply not enough people active on this blog to produce any valid results.
However, thanks to Gaynor's contributions, my own knowledge of the dialect, and other people's contributions, I intend to put together a short book including, at the very least, a glossary of dialect terms, some analysis and maybe a little history.
It's great that you are interested, and if you can spread the word about the blog then that's even better.
Right now, I am stretched for time with work and family, and I can't devote as much time to the blog as I'd like to.
But please continue to comment and discuss anything related to the Warrington dialect :-)
There was a small article about the blog in the Warrington Guardian,that was how I got to know about it, so I will write to the Guardian to reccomend it. A few more people might give it a try.
DeleteSome more words:
ReplyDeleteBrew: A rise and fall in a road or street: "Go t top o brew an yerll see the shop at bottom".
Cadge: To get something for nothing: "Where did yer get that money.ave yer been on the cadge"?
Clout: A smack.
Do: A celebration: " I enjoyed the do last night. Ave gor a bit of an angover".
Maulin: Messing with something: "Stop maulin that apple if your not goin to eat it".
Just a comment on the Warrington accent. I have always thought that generally it sounds closest to Salford/Manchester speech rather than to Leigh, Newton, St Helens, Widnes or Runcorn speech even though the latter are geographically closer to Warrington than Salford/Manchester.
ReplyDeleteWhat is a Warrington dialect. In my opinion it's how we speak today, which may not be how we spoke yesterday or how we will speak tomorrow. OK maybe not as drastic as that but you can see what I'm getting at. Our language as most people recognise is constantly changing and presumably so is our dialect and even our accent. So under those circumstances how is it possible to define a Warrington dialect, almost impossible I would say. What might be possible is to set a specific period, obviously within living memory, and to limit the research to those parameters.
ReplyDeleteBecause Warrington's population has expanded so rapidly since the creation of the New Town, finding Warringtonions of an age who can contribute to this means of communication is not going to be easy. Robert, you are going to need at least another 50 Gaynors to make your research worthwhile and comprehensive. But I wish you every success.
Yorick
I have lived in Warrington for all of my 56 years and have considered it as a fairly neutral accent until I started work in Wigan and was amazed that Wiganers found me to have a strong accent, not the other way round. Words that were normal to me were unheard of to my new colleages 12 miles north. Examples are:-
ReplyDeletecullies marbles
out-door off-licence
chipper chip shop NOT chippie
spanish liquerish
kayli sherbet
ock'ud awkward
back'uds backwards
back and to back and forth
bathers swimming costume
Hiya TF. Im glad somebody else has hheard the word spanish, I was beginning to think I was imagining it!
DeleteChip shop was also known as chipper,like you say never chippie. Your a similar age to me, do you ever remember hearing the phrase "San fairy ann"?It was said to mean something didnt matter. Its been suggested that soldiers brought it back from France after the first world war, I heard regulary growing up.
Gaynor, your question about the origin of the expression 'san fairy ann'. It was a corruption of the French phrase 'ca ne fait rien' which meant 'it doesn't matter'. It was brought back by the British soldiers from the The First World War, along with many other words and phrases which arrived from the parts of the world where our soldiers saw action.
ReplyDeleteYorick
I wonder how many people realised they were speaking French?!I think jangle(to talk with friends/family)might be another french word then,comming from the word Jongleur(a minstrel or storyteller)What do you think?.
DeleteSome more words:
ReplyDeleteBorrod: Borrowed."A borrod that scalf off'er last week,a'l ave t give it 'er back"
Cheesecutter: A mans flat cap with a stiffer rim at the front.
Butty: A sandwich.
Char: Tea. "am lookin' forward to a cup o char"
Dollop: A big pile of anything. "Al 'ave a dollop o custard as well please"
Gawpin:Stareing with a daft expression,usually openmouthed.
Just returned to Wirelect after a few week absence, some fascinating stuff on here. Gaynor you repeatedly take me back to my childhood with that treasury of words which you keep remembering. I recognise all of them, many of which I had noted down intending to post them at my first opportunity. A variation on one of your words 'skenning', we used to call kids who (sadly) had occasion to look cross eyed, 'Sken a Ben'. I think there was a comedy film star from the old days whose eyes were like this.
ReplyDeleteHere are a couple more which you may be familiar with,
Conkering - going to collect conkers
Nesting or Eggin - going looking for birds nests or eggs
Going on Jungle - Very localised this one - it meant going to play on the waste land next to Bewsey School playing field, it now has houses built on it.
Skinny - someone who wouldn't share things, and someone who was even worse was 'dead' skinny. The word dead could be used to emphasize any description.
I could have kicked myself - frustrated with oneself.
Umpteenth time - saying or doing something so many times you lost count.
Cat Lick - a quick wipe with a wet flannel instead of a proper wash.
I'm going Cworp - Usually when sent on an errand to the local Co-op shop.
Going on Green - visiting the shops on Sankey Green
Going Town or Going Up Town - Visiting Warrington town centre shops
Going Pictures - Visiting a cinema, usually the Pivvy (Pavilion)
Yorick
Hiya,
DeleteAll these are dead good. Our very local saying was "Goin on Bricker"(Brickfield Park)Cworp was the Stores. we either walked or "Bused" it to town,but if you were telling anyone where you were going it was (and sometimes still is)up town.
Some more words:
Fast: Stuck.
Lug hole/Lug: Ear.
1st of April. April Fool's Day or All Fool's Day, but when I was a little kid it was always 'leggin over day' until dinner time. Does anyone else remember this?
ReplyDeleteHere's some more sayings from those days.
Your talking Double Dutch - what your saying doesn't make sense.
It's a Cake Walk - something is dead easy to do
Sweating Cobs - in posh terms you are perspiring profusely for some reason.
Yorick
Hiys Yorick
DeleteWe all looked forward to Aprils fools day as it got closer. I remember it being called "leggin over day",frantic leggin over early on then more tactical for a better leggin up as the morning went on.I think playing tricks became more popular as we got older,but leggin over and tricks only happened until dinner time like you say.Im wondering if leggin over could have been unique to Warrington.My husband who lived in frodsham and preston brook has never heard of it.
I dont think leggin over is still done is it?
I have never heard of "Leggin' over day". To me, the 1st of April is always called April Fools' Day. The pranks or tricks were supposed to be carried out up to 12 noon. After 12 noon, the person playing the trick became the fool, but the name of the day did not change.
DeleteI did a bit of Google research, and found out that "Legging up" is not restricted to Warrington, although it may well be a Northernism. I have found two separate blog posts from individuals in Hull who remember April Fools' Day as "Legging Up Day", but only after 12 noon!
The "legging up" referred to the act of tripping someone up by sticking your leg out, obviously only carried out by school children (I hope). So far,I have not found any other references to legging up.
I noticed Yorick refers to it as "Legging over", whereas Gaynor called it both "Legging over" and "Legging up". I would be interested to know if there is a difference between the two.
I dont think there is any difference.I noticed my brother used both terms when I was talking to him about it. Different people I have spoken to remember the day differently.Some say leggin over till dinner(12noon)and then tricks.Others remember it the other way round.
DeleteI keep laughing to myself at the thought of adults just randomly leggin each other over on the day.Just my daft sense of humour.
Haven't seen any mention of the word "slutch" meaning mud; if you walked on the banks of the Mersey you'd have slutch up to your knees!
ReplyDeleteGreat word! I'd forgotten about that. My Dad always called the Mersey mud "slutch". The word seems to be a dialect version of the standard "sludge", which is defined as the semi-solid material left from industrial wastewater, or sewage treatment processes.
DeletePhonologically, sludge and slutch are what are known as a "minimal pair". This means that they differ by only one sound (technically called a phone). The difference is in the "dg" and "tch" bits of the words. The "dg" sound is voiced, which means that your vocal chords vibrate when you make that sound. The "tch" sound is voiceless, which means that your vocal chords do not vibrate when you make that sound. Try it! Put your fingers on your throat and say the words separately. You can feel the difference.
Most languages have minimal pairs, and English is full of them (pin, bin; let, lit; hot, pot; etc). My feeling is that "slutch" conveys a clearer sense of what the mud sounds like when you walk in it, and in that sense could be described as onomatopoeic, or a word that sounds like what it is or does.
Have just been trying to analyse the sludge/slutch usage. Although I have not used the word slutch for many years, I think I would differentiate the usage by saying that you might see the sludge or mud, but it was only when you got it on you, either shoes or clothes, it became slutch. For instance if as a kid you came home from playing football on a muddy field, your mother would say "where have you been you're covered in slutch". Maybe slutch was a word to cover all types of 'muck' without getting to technical.
ReplyDeleteYorick
We do a lot of country walking so I use both words on a regular basis! Ill say my shoes are slutchybut a country path might be just one long dollop of sludge.
DeleteI think of slutch as being smelly foul stuff, maybe because as a child, that was the only type of mud available in Sankey Bridges...lol.
DeleteHiya Totty. I bet as a child you didnt even notice it! My Mam might have said to me "Crimmins (pronounced cry) what are yer covered in!"
DeleteNew word, at least I don't think I've seen this one on here. Perhaps time for an index Wirelector.
ReplyDeleteSkidadle (never sure about the spelling of some of these words) - To leave quickly, perhaps after being caught doing something wrong.
Yorick
Hiya Yorick, Thats a good word, along the lines of beat it,get lost or leeggin' it.Prefer Skidadle though. Heres a few more words:
DeleteMug: Face.
Vext: Upset. "Av just seen er. she looks proper vexed about what you said"
cock: a term of endearment: "Hiya cock,are yer alright".
Here are some more words.Im sure most of you will remember them:
ReplyDeletePinny: Short for Pinafore,a dress which usually went over a blouse or jumper. Or a garment used to work in.My Mams were always flowered.
Maiden: A clothes airer.
Cack:Poo,Faeces,Shit,whatever you want to call it!
Wom?: Home.
Campion: Great,beltin,smashin'
I know there are not many of us contributing to this blog, but does anyone remember the following kids games that were played at least 65 years ago in my case.
ReplyDeleteKick can alerky - You placed a can at the junction of two 'backs', then the person who was 'on' had to try and find other kids who were hiding and race back and touch the can before the one he had found. If he managed it then the other kid would take over being 'on'. However if while he was searching someone could sneak in and throw the can up the backs, they would shout 'Kick can alerky' the 'on' kid then had to retrieve the can and continue to search.
Another game that was very popular was called ' I call'
Someone was selected to hold a tennis ball and stand with their back to the other kids, (no limit to the number playing). The kid with the ball would then shout 'I Call' and everyone would respond with 'Who do you call' They would then shout out a name and throw the ball over his or her shoulder towards the other kids. If the person named could catch the ball before it hit the ground there would be no change in the thrower, but if they didn't catch the ball they would be the next person 'on'. By the way this game tended to be played in the street as there was more space available. Another variation of this game could be played by throwing the ball at a gable end. Until of course the householder came out and shifted you.
There were activities which mainly involved girls such as skipping, they seemed to know endless rhymes to skip to. Plus their speciality, tossing up the wall with their skirts tucked in their knickers and sometimes doing the 'crab'
For boys there was 'trundles'. The best ones belonged to kids whose dad worked at Whitecross Wire Works, these were made of several strands of twisted wire and were much lighter and more flexible than the solid steel type.
These were just some of the games that were played, certainly some of these have disappeared forever, sadly along with the pleasure of bringing together groups of children who shared the experience.
Yorick
Thanks Yorick. The names of games can often be really old. Could you explain a bit more about "trundles". You didn't actually say what they are. Thanks.
DeleteHiya Yorick.I can remember all of the games you have mentioned except "I call".We all played "Kick can a lerkry" but I think the girls tired of it qucker than the boys(but I think this was some sort of ploy on the boys'part).Trundles was sometimes played with old bike wheels and I remember the girls playing it with hula hoops.It was extra skillfull if you could get a good spin on it at the start by hand so it would come back at you to get a good start with the stick.
DeleteOther games were "London bridge"(mostly girls),"Two or double balls" played against a wall,"Farmer farmer","Jacks","Kiss chase"......
They did bring all the kids together in a way you dont see today,but I suppose kids socialise in their own way which I think is leading to a loss of verbal communication.
does anyone remember getting their legs 'scutched' when skipping? My dad was an electrician so I skipped with cable and that gave you a good 'scutch' if it caught your legs!
DeleteHiya. I dont remember the word scutched.I do remember that sometimes the ones "turning up" used to "fudge". In other words they would suddenly turn the rope slowly so you got caught in it,so then you would have to "turn up" after a lot of arguments! Fudge was also a cheating action when we played cullies.
DeleteHi Wirelector
ReplyDeleteSorry to leave you in the dark (thats a phrase isn't it) about trundles. These were similar to hoola hoops but made of what could be best described as wire rope of about half inch diameter. Some were made of solid steel rod but of a smaller diameter. The hoop itself was approximately two feet in diameter.
The idea was to set the hoop rolling and then to maintain its forward motion with the aid of an iron rod with a hook on the end which engaged with the hoop but did not stop it rolling forward. Various moves could be made with the trundle once it was rolling, including pulling it back whilst still rotating. Normally you just ran round the backs and streets with your mates seeing who could keep it going the longest. I hope that description makes sense.
Like all kids games of that period, all activities were seasonal, you seemed to play certain games at certain times in the year. In summer you would play until it went dark and you were called in for bed, unlike young children of today there were very few distractions indoors.
With regard to trundles Warrington kids probably had a great advantage over other towns as we had at least four major wire producing companies in the town which provided a ready supply of top quality trundles. Occasionaly you will see illustrations of children playing with hoops but I have never seen them described as trundles in publications. Perhaps it is a Warrington word.
Yorick
Hiya Yorick. Ive recently learned that the rhyme to the London Bridge game goes back to when the Vikings destroyed the bridge. Learn something new every day!
DeleteHere are some more words which have been used in more recent years:
ReplyDeleteManky: Dirty,sticky.. "Change yer shoes,they look a bit manky".
Ace: Great,brilliant. "Your new car is ace".
Mucker: Friend,mate. "Hiya mucker,how yer doin'".
Flushed: Having more money than usual to spend. "I'll get the drinks in"
"Bloomin' eck you must be flushed".
Heres some "delicacies" that I ate growing up in the 50/60s:
ReplyDeleteTripe.
Pigs Feet/Totters.
Cow Heel.
Sav'ry Ducks.
Neck End.
Oxoin hot water with pieces of bread in it(50's Pot Noodle!)
Beef Dripping on toast(only at the weekend)
Sauce Butties.
I wonder how many of these the kids of today would eat? I liked them all.
Hiya, (Alls quiet on the western front)
ReplyDeleteI dont think any of the following words have been mentioned:
Caper: A lot of things. "On this blog we talk about words,language and all that caper".
Rush: Cost. "How much did that rush yer?.It looks lovely".
Tidy; A lot. "Ten bob!,thats a tidy sum fer summat like that"
Bob: A shilling(old money)
Tanner: Sixpence piece. Two in a bob.
Hiya everyone. Hope everyones having a good summer,even in a wet Warrington!
ReplyDeleteHeres some words Ive not heard for ages but all cropped up again recently:
Puddled: daft. "Look at what he is doing.I think hes a bit puddled".
Rigout: New clothes. "Its me cousins weddin' next week,Ill 'ave to ger a new rigout".
Bugalugs:A term of endearment.
Orlez,not sure if thats the right spelling: Always. "Hes orlez goin' on about 'is new car"
Mon:Man.
Some Warringtonians will remember Gartons near the river at bridge foot.when we were growing up we noticed that reading it backwards it spelled "snotrag". It seemed hilarious at the time.
Hiya. Heres a few more words:
ReplyDeleteWench: A young woman.
Float: Move or get going. "Can a have a piece 'o that cake Mam?
"No. Not yet,float" :-)
Melt:This ones difficult to explain. I suppose you could call it a term of endearment.What do you think?If Dad was teasing Mam she would say "Give over yer daft melt" or if anyone had done somsthing silly,usually said to an adult,"Oooh look what yerve done,yer daft melt"
Its just crossed my mind,with so few comments on the blog,is this the modern version of talking to yourself?:-)
Hi Gaynor.
DeleteI know it may feel like you are talking to yourself, but rest assured, I am listening and I really appreciate every comment you make!
I'm trying hard to get more people interested in the blog, but it is up to individuals to decide whether they comment or not.
Hi Gaynor
DeleteHave just come back on the blog after a couple of months absence. No I've not been 'inside'. It's great to see you are still contributing so much. Nearly all your words are so familiar to me even the 'Garton's' one. When I hear them I am immediately transported back to those childhood days when these words and phrases were a major part of everyday conversation.
I have just come back from a few days spent in Leek in Staffordshire, where every other person seems to call you 'Duck', I suppose in Warrington we might have used 'Cock' or certainly 'Luv', but it does illustrate the essence of dialect.
Yoric
Hiya Yorick. I enjoy contributing to the blog although I do find it very different talking to people when you cant see them or hear the tone of voice.Maybe thats because I have only just started using the computor.
DeleteStaffordshire is a lovely part of the country.We do seem to go through the full spectrum of farmyard animals in our language!Cock.Hen,Chick,Duck,Cow etc.Some of them we dont want to hear!Saying that,Cow is becomming a term of endearment now in some parts of the country isnt it.
Hi Gaynor
DeleteSorry but I only know 'cow' in it's derisory sense, as with 'bitch'. I suppose the usage is to some extent based on a persons visual perception of the animal and whether it is flattering or otherwise.
Talking about the difference between spoken and written communication, I totally agree with you, You would immediately notice the difference between my attempt at 'standard English' on this blog and my Warrington accent/dialect in face to face chat, and especially if watching the Wires play.
Yorick
Hiya Yorick. Perhaps term of endearment is pushing it a bit for "cow".maybe its becomming more widely used so is accepted more,like bloody or Jesus Christ.
DeleteSpoken and written communication is obviously different between friends as well. They know when you say things in jest and know how you mean things in general. I hope this makes sense!
I'd add
ReplyDeleteJiggered :- exhausted
A total confusion and mix up of lend and borrow as in "can I lend your bike"
Thrutch....to move along a seat with standing up
Dint - a dent
Mention of the word slutch (ie sticky foul smelling mud) made me think about the origins of slutchers lane...
Hiya. I have nver heard of the word thrutch.We used to say "budge up". This was moving along a seat or "form" :-) on your bum.
DeleteI must admit Ive benn guilty of saying "Could you lend me your...."
When I thought of this another turn around of words came to my mind.Itch and scratch. Some people now say "I must itch this scab,its driving me mad" Another one is the use of yes and no which I find really strange. For example:"Yes,no your right".
Slutchers lane is a really old part of town isnt it. As far back as I remember its always been slutchy,but as long as we dont go too deep into it we should be alright.(sorry bad joke).
Slutcher's Lane originally carried on and joined Sankey Street. If I remember correctly, it was what became Winmarleigh Street.
DeleteI don't know if it's a Warrington dialect word, or if I had trouble pronouncing it when a toddler and never changed the way I said it. But I used to call my grandmothers "graamar".
ReplyDeleteThe only local bit might be that I would have pronounced the "aa" in a northern accent.
I know a lady whose nickname is "Neet" because her sister couldnt pronounce Anita. This probably happens a lot, in which case the question is: does it have any wider effect?
Hiya David. I also used to call both my Grandmothers "graamar". Then the name "nanna" came into use.I dont remember nanna being used by anyone when I was young.
DeleteI had an Auntie whose name was Elizabeth Ellen which for some reason became Gellin(pronounced as in hair gel)Then the next generation called her Auntie Gel. This got me into trouble once at school but its a long story. Oooh go on then youve twisted my arm,get your tea and biscuit
At primary school (aged about 8/9) a few of us sometimes stood round the teachers desk to "discuss" a topic. This days was relatives
Teacher: Right Clarke G.(there were that many of us) who are your Aunts?
Me: Me Mams or me Dads sisters sir.
Techer:You mean my Mothers or Fathers sisters.
Me:(looking at him blank)I thought you said mine sir.
Techer:(exasperated) Name yout Aunts.
Me: Auntie Eva,Auntie Alice.Auntie Olive,Auntie Nelly,Auntie Sally,Auntie Winnie,Aunt Marie,Auntie Polly,Auntie Gel...
Teacher: Stop! Hold out your hand.(Followed by a smack on my hand twice with the ruler.
Friend:She as got an auntie Gel sir.
Teacher: She was going to say jelly.
The injusice of being smacked is why I remember this incident. I suppose it has had a wider effect,but not the way we are talking about :-)
Hiya David. One change that has occured with names is that in recent times names that used to be "nick names" like Jack(John) Joe(Joseph) Kate(Katherine) etc. have slowly come to be used as christian names in their own right. I wonder what will be the next change?
DeleteYou could also add Katy to that list. My little niece and nephew have both got Biblical first names. My sister is having another baby and they don't knowm if they'll continue this.
DeleteI love the way small children mispronounce certain words. My niece loves to use the word squiggle for squirrel, although I don't suppose her nursery school teachers particularly appreciate it.
Don't know if it's specifically a Warrington word, but "slather" is something my family used to refer to a dog drooling.
ReplyDeleteHiya David. When Wirelector mentioned "slothering" on another page the word "slavver" came to my mind,which has a similar meaning to "slather" or "slobber". In my family it usually means a baby drooling. Mind you we have'nt kept dogs for years.
DeleteI agree children do use some funny words. My niece used to say sodish for sausage and my son sais heep for sheep. A relative of mine calls his gran mama.
Hiya Wirelector, heres a few more words. I dont think theyve been mentioned before.
ReplyDeleteBleedin'/Bleeder:Used as an expletive, a bit like sod or get(but sounds worse I think).
Spliced:Married. "He's nervous,hes getting spliced tomorrer".
Feared:Frightened.
Agen:Against. "She's courtin' that fella from across road. Her mams dead agen it"
"Stop leanin' agen that table,yer'l upkeck it".
Dip: Any sauce or gravy.
Jessey:A man acting soft or weak. "Put yer back into it, yer can move that yer jessey"
Perishin': Cold. "Bloomin' eck its perishin' outside"
Traips:To walk slowly or a long walk. "that hill walk is goin' to be a bit of a traips"
"Our Gay must be traipsing behind, lets wait here".
Hi Wirelector. I remember the word "lozzock", as in "Stop lozzocking around and get something done". Perhaps used in the same sense as "lounging" around. Not heared anyone say it lately though.
ReplyDeleteA word I heard recently that I havent heard for ages:Nazzie: Angry/irritable. "Me mam must be gerin better,she got nazzie today".
ReplyDeleteNarked: Similar to above.
Lip: Giving cheek. "Ay,less of yer lip,yer not to big fer a layin' on".
Stail/steyl?: Wooden handle of a brush or mop.
Twerp:Somebody behaving in a silly way. "Stop throwin' that water about,yer twerp".
Bumbaylies: Baliffs. They put your furniture out in the street if you werent paying your rent,telling you to move out. Ive seen it happen a couple of times!
Bluebottle: a fat shiny blue fly. (not heard that word for ages).
Clink: Jail.
Glonder: Product of a spit.
Lozzock is a good word. Along the same lines as rorming,lolling,raunging. Could have a scale of lazziness!
These are great words, Gaynor.
DeleteGlonder is just gross. There's something about that word that has always grossed me out, but it definitely needs to be included here.
Stail is a word that I haven't heard in years, but I recognised it as soon as I saw it.
I have to ask, what does "raunging" mean?
I know,its disgusting. I was in two minds whether to mention it but I thought I would get it off my chest. I hope you found that play on words more amusing than gross.
DeleteWhen I was posting the word "rorm" I asked my hubby how he would spell it. He had never heard the word before and said his mum would say raunge to mean the same thing. Google mentions raunge as an old form of the word range/rangeing. Which I suppose makes sense with rangeing over an area eg raunging over a sofa. Its a word I havent heard of until recent years. I have also heard the word rangey as meaning somebody's build:long arms and legs.
Hi Gaynor, or should we call you Guinevere of which Gaynor is the medieval English form. Have you really been around that long? (only joking, no offence intended)
ReplyDeleteBy the way 'clink' originates from the London prison which I think was situated adjoining the river of that name.
Yorick
Hiya Yorick. No offence taken:-) Guinevere, a lovely name with a touch of mystery and two men at her beck and call!
DeleteI didnt know there was a prison called the Clink. I thought it was a term for any prison just because of all the clinking noises when you were locked up. It came to me when you mentioned in another post that you had been away but not "inside".
A few more words.
ReplyDeleteChewy: Chewing Gum
Red Raddle: A red polish used to put on bricks round the front door.
P.O.: My Mams version of p*** off. Thats the nearest she came to swearing and had to be very angry to say it :-)
All of my grandparents have passed away, as has my mother. So that resource is denied to me, vis-a-vis words and phrases in Warrington. However, my paternal grandmother was from Biddulph, just over the border into Staffordshire, and they call each other "duck" i the way we would say "love".
ReplyDeleteWhen I was at University in Plymouth, from '92 to '95, my accent made me stand out (can't remember if anybody picked up on my dialect, though). People's geography was often a little vague, and I was once asked if Warrington was near Birmingham.
ReplyDeletePeople genuinely have a set of stereotypes when it comes to the North, and it isn't much of an exagerration to say that they imagine it to be terraced housing from coast to Pennines.
Hiya David. We visit Staffordshire and Derbyshire quite a lot and hear the word "duck" used in both places. Sometimes an s is added "There you go me ducks" Even though they are still speaking to one person.
DeleteIn the 70's I used to work at Nestle near Winwick. They had offices and depots all over the country so there was a mixture of southerners and northerners working together. A friend and colleague was trnsferred from Carshalton in Surrey up to Warrington. He found the accent very difficult to understand,but also found some of it amusing,like the short a in basket. He(and the other southerners) said "baaaarsket". If we said something like "bloomin eck" he was lost. Of course we all merged together in time, but we seemed to understand them from the start better than they understood us.
Then there were the people from north lancashire. Everything was "Reet nice". When we answered the phone though we all sounded the same! It was great :-).
Hello, Gaynor
ReplyDeleteMy understanding is that posh accents and Received English only came to the fore with the rise of the public school system. Prior to that, the rich people in an area spoke like the commoners. And that, because public schools were overly represented in the Home Counties area, that why thet version of English became the "Received" one.
I studies Italian for a while, and that's a language of myriad dialects, many of which are mutually incomprehensible. Apparantly, it was only with the rise of radio and televison that Standard ittalian - that of the Tuscany region - became as widespread.
Thats interesting David.I always thought accents were just a merge of incommers and locals over time regardless of wealth. I am definitely no expert on the topic! So people thought because they were educated they spoke better than everybody else,mmm.
DeleteGaynor, it's also because the Court i.e. of the King/Queen, settled down in the London/Home Counties area. For years and years, the Court moved around the country.
ReplyDeleteMonarchs of old, such as the infamous Richard III (who was the victim of Shakesperian black propoganda, by the way) would have spoken with provincial accents.
Incidentally, my glasses need fixing, which goes a long way towards explaining my atrocious spelling.
Hiya David. All very interesting and getting the old brain cells working:-). Looking back it was nearly always the teachers from down south who pulled us up on our accent.
DeleteI'll believe you,thousands would'nt. I blame the slip of the fingers:-)
Here are a few more words:
Aunt Sally: A versatile household cleaner. My elder sister assures me thats what it was called.
Blackin': Black shoe polish.
Fast: Stuck. "'av got me scalf fast in door".
Fib: Lie.
My Dad sometimes uses the word "fizzgigging", to mean messing about, but he doesn't know whgere it comes from.
ReplyDeleteSimilarly, he told me that my paternal grandmother used to use the word "mollygogging", although I couldn't pin him down on what it meant. As she came from north Staffordshire, though, this may have been a word from there.
Never heard these words before, they sound straight out of a Charles Dickens book. Good words arent they? One word that sounds similar is "mollycodling", used to mean your over protecting someone,usually a child.
DeleteWirelector sometimes mentions how language changes over time. We were walking in shropshire this weekend and staying B&B at a pub. When we went down for tea at about 5.30 it was always busy. I commented to my hubby that they seemed to be doing good business. I couldnt believe my ears when he replied "Yes, but they seem to have a quiet window about 7". I think he's been "getting down" with our sons friends too much :-).
A few more words to add to the collection:
ReplyDeleteSeg: Hard skin on the hands or feet.
Perished: Very cold. "Should we go in?, its perishin stood out 'ere".
Bawl: To shout/cry. "No need t bawl at me, am only 'ere".
Hawker; A rag and bone man/person who sells things from a cart.
Here's a thought. The western parts of Warrington have Liverpool-influenced words. The eastern parts have a more Manchester/Lancashire influence. That's because of their relative positions, vis-a-vis our metropolitan neighbours.
ReplyDeleteWhat about the North-South divide? I'd guess that most middle class families live south of the Ship Canal. I'd also wager that a significant part of the disposable income in Warrington is found south of the Canal. Does this create a difference between them? Leaving aside the demographics of the relative populations, I would further guess that Cheshire influences the way people talk south of the canal. One thing I could imagine being the case is more words related to a farming lifestyle, as opposed to industrial related words to the north.
A very interesting point, David, and something that I would like to explore further.
DeleteAlthough, I think we have to be very careful with the word "class". It has so many connotations attached to it, and people react in different ways to it for there own different reasons, all of which are equally valid.
The North/South divide does interest me in terms of the influence of the Lancashire and Cheshire dialects respectively, and indeed the river and later Ship Canal have acted as a dividing line.
I think your premise is worth exploring here on the blog. I'll post it on the front page and let's see what responses we get.
It would be interesting to see if there are any differences between language usage south of the river and north of the river.
Here's an interesting link to a website about Italian:
ReplyDeletehttp://urd.let.rug.nl/nerbonne/papers/Wieling-etal-Language-2012.pdf
My reading of it is that the history of Standard Italian is significantly different to "Standard English" and that this has an enormous effect on local dialects and the stronger they are.
This would suggest that the later a "Stndard" language develops, the greater the differences between dialects.
Class,snobbery,having lots of money all these things are linked but dont necessarily all come together. I think the following occurrences are relevant so I'll mention them.
ReplyDeleteIn the mid fifties my mam and dad wre uprooted from the community they wre born and bred in,grew upin and married to a modern housing estate in the north of Warrington.Mam especially was affected by this. There were abusive rows and foul language in the street on a regular basis.Mam ould bring myself and brothers inside on these occasions. Was she being a snob because she didnt want her children open to this behaviour? A lot of the neighbours thought so. As time went on this opinion persisted because we all got jobs. Not everybody was the same,we had some good friends,but it was there.A few other families wre thought of in the same way.
Around about the same time I had come home from playing a netball match with the school team against a school on the south side(didnt realise the difference at the time)and related a story to my mam about one of their girls making fun of our skirts and saying we must be poor.It had driven at least one of our team to tears.Mam asked"Well, did you think their skirts were better than yours?" I replied "No mam" "Well there you go" Dad said "Dont let anybody let you think they are better than you" Thats always stuck in my mind.
On a lighter note there was also what we now call "The something on a tray tea" The youngest of my brothers came home from a friends house in Winwick and announced that he had had "Something on a tray for tea" In my mind in registered as "Something" on a tray. In Mams it was "Something on a tray" Mam said "What did you have on the tray" I piped in "No mam weve got t guess" Dad looks up from the paper and says "It doesnt seem as though anybobdy knew" We all laugh and mam walks out muttering "Something on a tray,tut,no wonder they've got money".
So at what age do you become aware of this division in class/money? More important I think is does it bother you? A lot of people,no matter where they live,think they have more dispoable money than they have but its only a credit card.
I know a few rural sayings.My hubbys mum says them quite often.She lived in cheshire for a long time.They might not be totally correct but here goes:
Oak before Ash you wiill only get a splash.
Ash before Oak youre going to get a soak: Connected to the amount of spring rain expected.
That apple hasnt fallen far from the tree: A family likeness.
If cows are lieing down its going to rain.
I seem to have rambled on. I hope I havent bored everybody silly.
Hello, Gaynor
DeleteSorry to hear of your family's bad experiences when you moved to (north) Warrington. I grew up in that part of Town and there were some "rough" characters.
I don't really know anybody south of the Ship Canal that I can talk to about how they speak. My Dad worked for most of his working years at Rylands Whitecorss, and there vmay be some language they used which was associated with the wire industry.
No need to be sorry David thats just how things were.Thanks to our lovely Mam and no nonsense Dad we somehow kept on the straight and narrow.It certainly was a rough area and I wonder if there were any like thes areas south of the border.I doubt it somehow. I think things have changed slightly though over the years. I think more affluent areas have been built here. Has more affordable housing been built in the leafy lanes of south Warrington? I'll go and have a look :-).
DeleteGaynor, my landlord is Warrington Housing Association, and they have some social housing near Ackers Pit and some part-bought properties in Appleton. Sometimes, in order to swing a decision, developers will pledge to build some social/affordable housing....perhaps some of the developments South of the Canal have included that.
DeleteGaynor, I've always felt that people commit the crime they can do. So an unemployed, working class teenager from a council estate, may only be able to shop lift or mug an old lady. But a middle-aged, middle class accountant or company director can engage in white collar crime. Bigger rewards and less chance of getting caught.
DeleteI also reckon that anti-social behaviour manifests itself in the posher parts of Warrington. I was mates with a guy who was a Warrington Borough Transport bus driver, and he regularly did the route into Town from Stockton Heath on Friday and Saturday nights. He got so much grief from young people who got on.
So I'd guess that there are rough types in Appleton and Walton, say, but they're better dressed, speak nicer and look less threatening. And that if they do act badly, it doesn't necessarily rebound on them as badly. As Benjamin Franklyn said: "Laws like to cobwebs catch small flies, great ones break them before your eyes." Hooray Henrys are an extreme version of this.
The difference with working class areas is that the urban environment and factors such as poverty and unemployment increase this tendency in people so there may be more of them but they're certainly more obvious.
I think that maybe we are getting a little off point here, David.
DeleteI respect your opinion, but let's try to keep the discussion on the dialect.
Thanks :-)
Fair point, Wirelector - no worries.
DeleteWirelector is quite right to point out that class can be an emotive word, and must be used carefully. I meant it in the more neutral context of life experiences. Health, education, income and occupation, quality and type of housing whether rented or owned)have effects in all sorts of ways.
ReplyDeleteHappy New Year everyone. This is my first venture into the blog of 2013. Have been fascinated by the conversations of Gaynor and David, we seem to have representatives of that other group you haven't yet mentioned, the 'intellectuals', only joking.
ReplyDeleteHowever the discussion of class, geographic origin and local dialect brought back memories of my forcible entrance into the Royal Air Force at the age of 18 to carry out my National Service, what a culture shock that was. A more diverse community for a lad from Warrington I could not imagine. Looking back it couldn't have happened at a better time, in many ways stood me in good stead for the rest of my life. What a great opportunity Wirelector missed.
Yorick
Hiya Yorick. Happy New Year to you too. My oldest brother would have totally agreed with you. He really enjoyed his time in the Army.Also sais my other brothers would have benefited from it,but not in those words!
DeleteI was involved with community radio - and before that hospital radio - for a decade or so. In that time, I picked up terms for different things which the lay public wouldn't have known (even if they knew of the existence of something.
ReplyDeleteA good example of this is "voicetracking" which is pre-recording and "RSL" which stands for Restricted Service Licence and means a short term FM broadcast. Anybody in the business should be familiar with the technical terms.
It's the same with other jobs, I presume. Doctors, solicitors, architects etc would have a language of their own, from which - I would imagine - words would leach out from their circle of co-professionals into their everyday usage with friends, family and neighbours. Assuming this to be true, then that would apply to any type of employment.My sister and dad have picked up some of these terms from me.
If we accept for argument that most professionals live south of the Canal, and most manual workers - of whatever industry - live north of it, then that fact alone would have some influence of the way people speak in the Town.
Naval terms have had a huge influence on everyday English, so I wouldn't be surprised to find out this supposition was true.
Both my maternal grandparents worked at Walkers brewery for years, but have passed away so I can't ask them. But I'm going to ask my dad, and an ex-colleague of his from Rylands - if they know of any.
My mam worked for many years at Armitage and Rigby(or Cockhedge Mill as it was sometimes called)and, as it was useless to try and shout over all the noise, would "meemow" or mouth words to communicate. She still did this for many years later when communicating over a distance to neighbours. Maybe we could call this an unspoken dialect :-). People still do it in quiet places and locally I still hear the word.
DeleteYorick mentioned the word "trundles" a while ago.These things were made in the wire works and gave their name to a childrens game of the 40/50s.
Some had the good luck of having the proper thing(a round metal wheel)others used anything that would roll.
My parents often used the phrase "on bobbins" especially when the clock wasnt working properly.
"That clocks on bobbins,its 10 minutes fast". This sounds as though it might be an industrial term. Anybody know?
I would guess that bobbins is a cotton or wool factory term. Armitage and Rigby was but the last of many cotton factories in Warrington so it would seep out into wider usage. We are supposed to have produced half of the sail cloth on the British ships at the Battle of Trafalgar but the American Civil War and the embargo on cotton ruined most of the cotton businesses in Warrington.
ReplyDeleteMy family have also used the term meemow, but in the context of somebody complaining incessently or talking rubbish.
I did ask my dada if he could remember anything from his time at Rylands but he couldn't. But I'll ask him about trundles.
I would think the word "brew" as used in "the tea's brewing" must come from the beer industry (brewing beer). In other words fuseing.
ReplyDeleteI have been researching my family history recently and came across the word "scutch",which has been mentioned on another page. In this case it was mentioned in connection with the treatment of cotton just before the spinning process and means to scrape or beat. It looks likely that this is where we get the word from meaning to scrape the skin or shoes.
Hiya everyone. Here are a few more words:
ReplyDeleteSlopstone: A shallow stone kitchen sink. Most terraced houses had these.
Gawmless/gormless?: To be a bit slow witted or have a vacant look. "Oooh,dont look so gormless. D' yer know where it is or dont yer?".
Smartin': Stinging: "Ave just burnt me 'and and it isnt 'alf smartin'.
Gnat: A flea.
Wag: To play truant: "Am goin' to wag school this mornin', its double maths".
Eshes: Ashes: "Its your turn t' tek the eshes from grate"
Hello Gaynor,
DeleteYou keep using a word which has its roots in 20,000 American servicemen at Burtonwood. The word is Hiya, which has now become Hiyoh,got any gum chum? Lancashire dialect is well ingrained in warrington folk.I went from Dallam Shed (after the close of steam)to work in London. People made fun of the way I said Noooo (no)
A few thoughts.Self examination of the way we says things becomes quite amusing. have you ever said"Eezz adit,ant-te or "Chuck it up ere" or the conotations of "hey-up" depending on the intonation of the voice.or "K,t stayt on im" or "Wiz gewin fer uz tea" or long words like "Gerroffit" or "Thesnewtleftferuz"I have a friend in Sutherland (Highlands) who is amused by the way I say "plum" like " Cum" and say things like Eeeee I doont know or Eeee wara mess!
ReplyDeleteHiya Brian (I might say howdy but that does'nt come natural :-). If we think about it the Americans brought a lot of words into our speech. Some,like swell or so long soon died out again. Hiya,see you later (I think thats an example)etc are still with us,plus I suspect many more recent ones.
DeleteLooking at all those words you have mentioned (are'nt they great?) I am hoping we have'nt completely "flumoxed" the people who are reading this blog in other countries and hope they are finding it all fascinating.
I dont think of the Warrington accent as being strong Lancashire but recently I was visiting family in the Wirral and after speaking to one of the neighbours for a while she commented on my "lovely Lancashire accent". What a compliment!
When I first met my husband I said something like "It's eezz"(it's his).He found it most amusing.
Here is a phrase that might be connected with the soap industry: To soft soap: To speak in a coaxing soft way to get your own way.Just like the slippery quality of the soap.
ReplyDeleteMam used to say to Dad "Dont bring yer soft soap 'ome wi' yer" This was when he was trying to use the coaxing method for somethingHe worked at Crossfields.
Apologies to Bryan for spelling his name wrong.
A few more words:
ReplyDeleteNip/Nippy: To move quickly: "Would yer nip t shop before it closes"
"Eez nippy 'e got back in no time"
Nippy: Cold.
Gollop: To eat quickly: "Stop gollopin' yer food yer'l feel sick"
Twicer: A duplicate,usually something you collect: "I'll swap yer this one its a twicer"
Nobby: Nick name given to males with the surname
Clark/Clarke. A name for a bowler hat that clerks used to wear.
Hello Gaynor,
ReplyDeleteDo you know if the term "mucker"meaning mate, has its origins in Warrington or is it from some other place.A man from Widnes once expressed surprise that someone called me "Mucker" fancy calling somebody muck, he said.
My dear old Gran used to say to us "si-thee" which meant,watch it or take note!not as in yorkshire Ahl-si-thee.
gu-t,shop fera dolly blue, an bringmit change or-else yerv adit chum!
I first heard the term "mucker" in the 1970's and have never heard it outside Warrington. Its a male thing to say,thats because of the sound and references of the word I imagine. Just could'nt imagine a woman saying it to another woman somehow.
DeleteCant remember ever hearing "si-thee" to mean watch it. I always heard "think on",meaning think about it.
Chum is a word I never heard used in our house or the neighbourhood. Did you have American relatives Bryan :-)
Great to see a new name in the discussion. Thank you for contributing, Bryan, your comments are most welcome!
DeleteI've not heard "mucker" anywhere else, and I agree that it is used in the male domain. My Dad and I often call each other "mucker" or even just "muck" :-)
"Si-thee", is very interesting.
I've not heard it before, but it immediately brought to mind the Norse connection. There is a theory that our greeting, "hey up" (pronounced, of course, without the "h") is derived from the Norse "Se upp!", which means "Watch out!" It is not a great leap from "se" to "see", and as we have discussed in earlier posts, the middle English "thee" is still used.
Incidentally, "Se upp" is still used in modern Swedish. For example, at railway stations in Finland, painted on the platform is the equivalent of "Watch out for trains". First in Finnish, "Varokaa junaa"; and then in Swedish, "Se upp för tåget".
I've only heared "mucker" in Warrington, and still hear it used today. I dont know if it's used anywhere else.
ReplyDeleteHello Gaynor & Tim,
ReplyDeleteI do not have any American ancestry, as far as I know,but my Dad was retail manager at the PX Burtonwood and came home in a van with USAF on it and brought us yanky comics which we swaped in the street. I have started listening to how people speak (not wishing to be nosey) I was in Sainsburys the other day looking at the chocolate. there was a lady in front of me with two children who were taking things of the shelves, she said "Purum back,yer nor avin em" Its get very intrestin when yer start, t, tek nowt ow folks talk,duntit?
Hiya Bryan. It certainly does. Compare that conversation with one two teenage girls wre having sat behind me on a bus:
Delete1st: "I saw "im at bus stop and I was like Oh my God he's gettin' on bus"
2nd: No way!
1st: Yeah. An I was like hes well fit.An he went "alright" an I went yeah,sound....
I must admit I had to smile.
We seem to replace "t's" with "r's" in words dont we? Gerrit , purrit, lerrit. purum, gerum, lerum.
Also: Duntit, Wuntit, Antit, Intit, Wantit.
Not posted for a while becauuse the credit on my dongle has run out....I keep meaning to top it up but other stuff keeps whispering in my ear asking for my cash!!
ReplyDeleteI've never used the word Mucker myself, but have heard it used by others. I read the posts here and sometimes I don't know the word and sometimes I think "Yes, my family has used that." But prior to reading it it just never occured to me that it was dialect. Wirelector made that point in our interview. I would imagine that's the case when something is so familiar....you don't notice it.
Hiya David. Never heard of a dongle before. Learn something new every day!
DeleteSome more thoughts on "Mucker"
ReplyDeleteI read the interesting comments by Wirelector concerning the word "Mucker" In my experience it usually means "mate" or as has been stated to help out "muck in" In my time at Cricklewood diesel depot and St Pancras I do not recall the term being used, mind you, its a long time ago.The first world war term from the trenches "Up to my neck in muck and bullets"may also be relevant in this case.Interestingly Websters Dictionary 1996 gives Mucker as being A course rude person which seems to be derived from "Muck" meaning moist manure,a nasty mess: filth.......dear me!
Gaynor, it's the Internet Wi-Fi thing that I plug into my laptop. Even when it had credit, the bloomin' thing could be VERY slow indeed!!
ReplyDeleteOne of my pet hates is being called mate. Does anyone know anybody who calls a woman mate? Two of my neighbours (one man,one woman) and a guy at our local does it! I suppose it could be worse,it could be mucker.
ReplyDeleteAdult baby talk:
ReplyDeleteBo-Boze: Sleep: "Cum on it's time yer was goin' t' bo boze".
Peggies: Teeth: "Look at them luvly peggies"
Gee gees: Horses: "Lets go an 'ave a look at the gee gees in that field". Also some adults might say "I'm goin' to 'ave a bet on gee gees".
Doe doe": Dummy: "Eez cryin', he wants 'is do do"
Booteeze: A knitted shoe for a new born baby.
Chucky egg; Hens egg: "Du yer want a nice chucky egg fer yer tea?"
Hello Gaynor
DeleteIya orraht? My mum used t,give me egg butties fo me t,tek t,werk.They wuz orraht fora bit burra got fed up with em after a bit.Av yer eva had sugar butties or bread an drippin? have yuou ever heard this expression: Get thee clogs on, thes trouble at mill.Not erd s,much these days.Q.where was the last Lancashire clog shop in Warrington?
Ye,fair ta middlin'. I always remember the smell of egg butties when they were unwrapped.Like sweaty socks. I like mine soft boiled on butties (lovely). I've never had sugar butties,never had a sweet tooth as a child,always went for the savoury option. I loved drippin' on toast,served by my dad on Sunday morning,remember them well :-). Another thing was oxo in boiling water with bread in.Used to have that while waiting for the taterash to cook.
DeleteThats a good question Bryan. I first thought of Naylors,but remembered they sold toffees and cheesy biscuits.He was called toffee Naylor. Then three of us thought of Gandys in Mersey Street,then "dirty Dicks" in Pinners Brow where my dad used to buy our clogs. I didnt remember wearing them but I am told by my sister that I did. So,with a little bit of help and because it was a family business, I am plumping for Gandys in Mersey Street.
Hello Gaynor,
DeleteI think it was Gandy's in Mersey St.
My Mum wanted me and my brother t,stay school dinners.(oakwood) but we said "Orr Mum they av taterash every day at school an tappioca fer afters"
So we went t,me Grans instead, cos she gave us chips an egg on Tuzdys an plumb duff an custad fer afters what stuck t,yer ribs.An sumtimes we ad hambone soup, eee, it were gradely.
Gaynor, did you know anyone that worked at Rylands Battersby Lane?
Taterash was one of my favourite meals,especially with red cabbage. We also went to our gran's for dinner in the last year or so of primary school(Silver Street). She used to make a stew which my cousin could'nt stomach because there was always fat on it.We always ate it so my cousin always gave my brother something,maybe some cullies or a good conker,to finish it for him. We seemed to eat anything,anytime.My mam said "yer must 'ave bellies like middens".
DeleteYes, I did know a fella who worked at Rylands.He is in his early sixties and I think I know you Bryan :-).
Hello Gaynor.
DeleteI went to the AGM of Woolston Horticultural Society
last night.Three ladies sat at my table,(one a teacher) I listened to the converstation and the dialect,it was very interesting listening how words were pronounced.The teacher who had been sent to elocution (Did I spell that right?)spoke with a more precise english but I could still detect words like cum (come) dun (done).Later the conversation went to the Lancashire & Cheshire border and came round to dialect after I mentioned WIRELECT.The teacher mentioned "Glottal Stop" and I said "thats the second time I've heard that word,she proceeded to explain its meaning, it proved a very interesting evening.
Are you Battersby lane Gaynor or Gaynor who's husband is called Les?
I have read about the glottal stop somewhere.Its prominent in the northern accents and is connected with the "t" and "th" and also end of words ending in "t". Maybe wirelector would give an explanation.I know I would ramble.
DeleteI am neither of the above Gaynors' Bryan. If you are a builder you rebuilt a wall for us "yonks" ago. We live off Padgate Lane.My hubby's name is Tim, he comments on the blog sometimes.
More words:
Mopesing: Looking miserable."Wots she mopesin' around for?"
"'ave told 'er she cant go out til shiz washed up"
Flummoxed: Confused state: "'am gerrin in a right flummox over this form 'ave got t fill in.
Hello Gaynor & Tim,
DeleteEee,me build wall,iz it still standin? Warra t,doo.
Why are functions refered to as a "doo"It were a beltin doo! Ar yer avin a doo? Eez gone t,thingys doo.
Shurrup an stop skrykin (be quiet and stop crying) Ezz gone ome yellin. (he's gone home crying)
We have had Palarva, but what about malarki.Lets ave none ov yer malarki.
Gaynor & Tim, I am 65,still working in a local school as a TA two days a week (The oldest teaching assistant in the town, I think! Ask wirelector for my Email address if you would like to converse, no prob!
"A do" and a "t do".Its interesting how two similar sayings can mean completely different things. Gerrin dolled up ter gu t a "do".Meaning a celebration or party. A "t do" meaning a rumpus/argument or messy situation.
DeleteMalarki's a good sounding word.To me it has a similar meaning to palarva.Maybe the word lark(having a lark) in it is connected to the meaning as well. Sounds a bit Irish too.
That wall is still standing Bryan after 25 years. Do you remember building it?.
Hello Gaynor.
DeleteJus gorrin from school.I happened to be on the bus today in the course of my work and overheard the man in front on his mobile phone: "Ah, sed t,wife". and "Am ont bus" More short T words:T,morroh,T,daay.Tuther.Get t,top ov it.
Stop it words: "Giveover" "Jus chuck it" "pakitin" "tha,rl doo" "Eenuffs eenuff".
Parking Problems:"Ooz iz that car"? Ee wants gerrit shifted"
23 years at Thorn Cross (Works dept) 4 years at a certain school in Padgate =27 I would like to speak to you and Tim if pos.
Topical dialect.
DeleteThe weather.
Rain;
Its chuckin it down.
Its cumin down like stair rods (Does anybody have stair rods these days)
Cumin yer dozy crow, y,l get soaked
wiz rained off, lets gu t,cabin.
It allez raains on walking day.
Sun shine: (In short supply)
Eee, its crackin the flags
Its boilin ot out ere.
Eee, its a gradely day.
Cold weather;
Eee, its freezin
Am chilled t,bone
Its proper parky.
Its reet kewd
That wind cuts yer in arf duntit.
Said today by a neighbour "Hya Bry,this global warmin stuff is rubbish, its keeps missin
Warrington duntit?
Hi Gaynor, I remember the 1963 winter,the snow blew undert front door an never meltid. all we ad wuz a coal fire and the gas stove.The windez froze on the inside an me Mum uzed t,purra hot brick wrapped in a tea towel in our bed.
Hiya Bryan. We have just got back from "that London",talk about accents/dialects bloomin' eck every one under the sun.
DeleteWinter of 1963,now thats what you call a winter:-)Good old days? Dead good words above describing the weather. Also,"Yer cud fry eggs on them flagstones".
"Its a lazy wind that,it guz right through yer"
Here are some more words:
Doddle: Very easy:"Am makin' a meal o this.It should be a doddle.
Rigmarole: A lengthy procedure: "It shud 'ave bin a ouick talk.Instaed wi gor all this rigmarole about war 'appened at last meetin".
Hello Gaynor
DeleteMy Mum had a whole vocabulary of strange words and sayings, here some of them;
Stop pidling & podling, ((aimless messin about)
Don't be morky (Walking about with a face on)
Q, whats that for Mum. A, layholes for meddlers.
meaning;mind your own business.
Who ar you talkin to, the cats auntie?
Scrape it up and scrape it back, wi short ov nuthin wiv got.
Q,Whats for tea Mum? A,rush an fancy or three runs round the table & a duck on a butt.
Threats for being naughty;
Y,l av me in the woorkhouse
Ship Collio (I never knew where that or what that ship was)
Al,send y,t, padgate cottage homes.(Strange, thats roundabout where I finished up working)
Yer,l gerra gud iddin in a bit.
Mechanical failures.
Its adit.
Its gon t,pot
Its onits last legs
Its kaput (German)
Its packed in (Or in the case of leaving the job) Eez pactin
Hiya Bryan, I have'nt heard the word "Butt" (short for butty/sandwhich)for ages. One of my brothers still uses it. We had a similar saying in our house for scrape it up etc.,it was "Spread it/slice it thin,we've got company". My Mam used to say this when we had unexpected visitors for a meal but did'nt really have enough to go round.
DeleteAnother saying was "Yer'l 'ave me in Winwick". This was said if we were "mithering" a lot. Winwick was a hospital for people with mental health problems.
"Who's she the cats mother":"That piece 'o bread was mine an she's just pinched it"
"Who's she cat's mother?"
Ship Callio has been mentioned before. I think Yorick said it was a ship where young offenders were sent for rehabilitation. Google gives varying locations. So if you knew what it was it was a good threat :-)
Hello Gaynor,
ReplyDeleteSat talking today with someone I know about tomato plants,he said "Eee tuk the uff cos ah did'nt giv im any" (Tomato plants) Has this expression been mentioned "Tuk thee Huff" (took the huff) Not quite the same as "Threw iz dolly out" which I think is a bit stronger.There is also "Eez pullin iz face"or sulkin.
Good old sayings those Bryan. One of my favourites is "Gorra face like a busted glosher" meaning the same thing.
DeleteWhen I was a lollypop lady the children used to say some amusing things.This conversation took place one afternoon after I had been to a dear friend and neighbours funeral:
1st.boy; "Where was yer this mornin' Miss?"
Me: "I 'ad ter go to a funeral"
2nd boy:(to his brother)"Wot wud thee want a lollypop lady at a funeral for?"
1st Boy:"Shid go as 'erself"
Hello Gaynor,
DeleteI know that this is going off the track a little but I am 66 next birthday and during my part time work at the school in Padgate, a child said to me "How old wuz you Bryan when the Titanic sank" It killed me pig!
I bet that gave you a sinking feeling Bryan. Nice that the younger children seem to be keeping the accent/dialect.
DeleteHello again Gaynor,
ReplyDeleteI have just been on the phone talking to my grand daughter,she is 7 and I was quite amused listening to her conversation. "Lottie has bin messin,we went t,the park with Mummy an she threw a paddy an wunt do wat Mummy sed"
Things to throw,
Chuckin duckies
Chuckin allsorts at uz
Chuckin it down
Throwin a paddy
Throwin a wobbler
She sounds like a typical 7 year old Bryan.Did you tell her to stop "snitchin'?". I have thrown a few "strops" in my time and Dad used to chase me to throw a slipper!
DeleteA few more words people might recognise:
Ditherin': Shivering or being indecisive.
Noddle: Head.
Slurin': Slideing (usually on ice) "Snows froze on path. Wi can 'ave a glood slur on it".
Diddle: To cheat someone. "A think a was diddled when a bought this,its fallin' apart".
Chops: Mouth: "baby must be teethin',she's gerrin a proper slaver chops".
Swelterin':Feeling very hot.
Chocker block. Crowded.
Hello again Gaynor.
ReplyDeleteI went on line to see if I could find a pair of Lancashire clogs.It brought to mind this expression which you don't hear so much these days. "Iz face ed stand cloggin" I'm not quite sure what the meaning of the expression is.I don't think it has a violent conotation.I have also heard it put like this "Eee, ited stand cloggin"
What duz tha think lass?
Now there is a word not heard so much these days.
Lass, short for lassie.
Our lass, meaning my wife or daughter at home.
And not forgetting; She's a lassie from Lancashire
Hello Gaynor,
ReplyDeleteUntidy places:
Its like a tip in ere.
Warra mess,its like Hobly's yard
Its like the Hobly's in ere.
Where was the Hobly's?
Maybe this belongs in Warrington history,
I tried to explain to a delivery man where a certain house was.
I said "its at White city" Older Warringtonians know exactly where that is, but this man did not.That led me to use a word which has now been corrupted. I went on to say, "there's a sort of "Bonk" with some houses on, just before you get to the M62 roundabout.
A bonk when I was younger was a piece of raised waste ground. Do you understand it to mean that? "Eeez bin playin on the bonk"
Hiya Bryan, A lot of "food for thought" here.
DeleteDid you get your clogs?:-) It was'nt unusual for men to mend shoes at home when I was growing up.Dad used to have a last stuck in a stump of wood,put it between his legs and nail on the leather he had cut.I used to love watching him. Maybe that has something to do with "yer face ud stand cloggin'. Someone who is hard faced and cheeky and not very sensitive. My brother in law is from Yorkshire and calls all the females in our family lass. I said he chose the rose with the blush.
We came to the conclusion that 'obleys was a place where homeless men used to be able,for a small amount of money,have a bed or at least a roof over their head for a night. I think it was near where the salvation Army is. So you can imagine all the mess and "pong" with the commings and goings.
Yes I know White City. All the houses used to be painted white, up bonk on side o' winwick road. You dont hear it called that now do you?
Hello Gaynor,
DeleteWe had missiles in our vocbulary before Saddam watsits.
"Wat d,yer think o this? scud intit?
I've gorra last in me back gardin stuck in a bit o telegraph pole.
I used to watch my Grandad mend his shoes in the back kitchen at Cornwall St.He never tukem t,menders.He liked his ale anall.He would send me Auntie Jean t,king & Queen with a pop bokkle fer a pint ov bittoh.
:-)A list of missiles:
DeleteBlackboard rubber.
Chalk.
Slippers.
Stones off bricker.
Sods of grass.
Slice of bread and marg.A threw one once at me brother.'it 'im right in "dial".Well, I 'ad t stand me ground. Mam told us off fer wastin' bread.
My sister used to take a jug to a local shop to be filled with stout for my gran. She did'nt like going "I 'ated smell of it". So shops selling beer is'nt a new thing.
Hello Bryan and Gaynor.
DeleteMy parents are currently visiting me in Ireland, and I have cornered them about some of the stuff you are talking about. Here is their input:
"Bonk" - a sloping piece of wasteland
"White City" - white-painted houses built for employees of Winwick Hospital
Hiya Robert,
DeleteNever been certain why white city was built. It was a group of houses on their own for quite a while. Well cornered :-) Thanks.
Hello Wirelector,
ReplyDeleteAv erd yerin Eyeland, well worrabout this! Eyeland has the worlds smallest city an the worlds largest city. Abet yer didn't know that did yer, Ner-ner-ni-ner-ner
Hello Bryan.
DeleteReally? Tell me more.
Hello Robert,
DeleteCork is the smallest city in the world, because.....It fits in a bottle, sorry bokkle
Dublin is the largest city in the world because, its..........Dublin every day!
Eee, where duz e gerum from?
Hello All,
DeleteYesterday ah typed up loads o, stuff on ere,burrit jus vanished???
Al, try agen,
Lancashire Dialect.
Wigan.
1st man: me tellys gon t,pot
2nd man: Thalaft fut gerra nu-un
Warrington.
1st man: Me tellys gone t,pot
2nd man: yellaft gerra nu-un
Leigh (Surprise)
Eee, well ah carnt spake!
Warrington.
Eee, ah dount know, warra t'du
St Helens
Thes moggies (mice) in me shed.
Warrington
Them moggies (cats) av bin in me shed.
Warrington
That wall oh yours as adit, yell aft gerrit rebilt. Jus luk at stayt ov it?
The Warrington Guardian
Hatches, Matches, and despatches.
We have mentioned "white city" on the blog,a name which seems to have faded into history. It made me think how many other names have gone the same way. Here are a few I can think of:
ReplyDeleteThe borough: Warrington General Hospital.
The Stores: The Co operative Society(Co op)
Pig Hill: Now Town Hill.
The Monner: An incline Near The Gospel Hall near Hale Street.
The Iron Bridge: A foot bridge over the railway line near Mill Lane, Winwick.
Hello Gaynor,
ReplyDeletePlaces;
The raller= the railway
The gullit=A path running by the railway
The bullet= The RAF firing range at Padgate
Lost valley= The space between the CLC railway at Padgate junct.
Poddys= A scrap yard at Orchard st
The Stinker= Sankey brook
Grannies= padgate brook
Turkey Jacks= A farm or area close to Padgate camp
Winwick drag= vroooom!
Pin barracks= Peninsular barracks,HQ South Lancs reg,
Wages.
Pin money; from the low wages paid at the pin factory in Latchford?
A few more:
DeleteMarks and Sparks: Marks and Spencer.
Ready money Greenwoods: Greenwoods furniture shop.
the Cicus: Market Gate.
These newer ones might go down in history:
The Skittles: The Guardians. Am I the only person who likes these?
Pink Eye Roundabout: Sankey Green Roundabout.
Chip pan alley: Orford Lane.
Hello Gaynor
DeleteI like it! Chip pan alley.
Yes I do. Speaks for it's self does'nt it. Can't beat proper chip pan chips.
DeleteHello Gaynor,
ReplyDeleteI heard these yesterday.
Fone fo me taxeh
Eee, my giddy aunt!
A little girl bounced up to me on Friday at school annd said:
Bryan, Bryan, Its fancy dress next fridie an yoove got t, cum as a bus driveh????
Today (Sat) whilst talking with my daughter I said " Did yer know that Sophiz courtin" My daughter said "Courtin" thats an old one Dad.
Well you can't dissapoint her Bryan :-) Get t that fancy dress stall in market!
DeleteCourtin' is an old word but you still hear it quite a lot. Yesterday I was talking to a neighbour and he asked how our son was "keeping" and had we heard "the sound of wedding bells yet".My hubby said "Just a tinkle".
Going back to buses,a question for you Bryan(or anyone else) What would you have if "you'd gorra twenty oner"?
Hiya Bryan,
DeleteLove that, "She bounced up to you":-)
Hello Gaynor
DeleteThanks f,the brew.
Scented sooup, (Soap)
I like scented sooup,I like scented sooup
Since scented sooup was sent to me
I've bean as clean as clean can be
I like scented sooup as in my bath I frolic
So if you send me any sooup
Don't send carbolic.
One my Mums daft songs which she passed on to my children.
I,m not sure how to change the sound of the vowel "O"in the word soap to bring out the lancashire dialect so I added the vowel "U" to make
it a long "o" I know from my wee bit of German that an "Umlaut" or two dots above the vowel can be added to change the vowel sound but i don't think we do that in English
Any road, Wirelector will know warra meen, an show uz.
Get rubbin wi that Donkey stone, Ahl be inspectin y,step when ah cum past your ouse on me travels.
ooow
A couple of playground songs (not to sure about the spelling):
ReplyDeleteThis one was sang as a skipping song:
On a mountain stands a lady, who she is I do not know,
All she wants is gold and silver, all she wants is a nice young man,
So call in...
(no boys played so you just called the next girl's name that was next in line). For some reason we sang that song quite posh.
This song was sang either skipping and the rope was turned "peppers" or playing two balls against a wall:
One,two.three allerra.
I saw my sister Sarah sitting on a bumbleera.
One,two,three.
Different actions had to be done with your body and the balls each time you sang it without dropping a ball.As it went on it could look quite impressive :-)
Hello G&T
DeleteI can remember girls singing skipping songs at Oakwood
Little black doctor, hows your wife.
Very well thank you she's alright
And another, If you miss a milligate you'r out. Sang whilst running in and out of the turning rope.
I can't remeber all the words but I think there were a lot more.
Hello G&T
DeleteOn Saturday I went to Myerscough college for the meeting of FORL election of officers and committee.(I wuz elected t,committee agen)I was asked by the secretary to say "St Helens" he laughed and said "You sed Sintelens" thats propoh Warrington he said.
now gerra load o, this, the government seem to be moving towards the re-establishment of the traditional county boundaries.All them ez want t, be livinin in Spud land berra start thinkin ov movin overt Mersey, coz we don't want em in clog land.
ta-ta cock.
A must admit Bryan, a do like a Cheshire spud with a bit 'o marg or butter on it.
DeleteI say sintelens or sentelens.Never noticed before. Here's another "sin/syn"(since):
"It's bin a long time sin 'ave seen 'im over road"
A few more:
Girs:(give us) "Wud yer girs that pen off table"
Scruff(back of the neck)"al bring yer in be scruff o neck if I 'ave t shout yer agen"
Interesting about the boundaries. Lets see what happens.
Hello Gaynor,
DeleteTo the best of my knowledge, or shud a say nollige. The is no potato variety called Cheshire.I will stand to be corrected, but I think thats the case.They are first and second earlies with various names. So if you plant them in your gardin in Warrington they are Lancashires.Its just that they grow yards of em in Cheshire as well as other things.
Hiya Brian, Spuds do have loads of names,never grew them at home until Dad had more time on his hands so always knew "new potatos" as Cheshires(which used to be dead cheap on the market).Never called the ones we grew Lancashires just "new potatoes". May be they were given the name Cheshires to sound more countryfied and appeal more to us townies.
DeleteHello Gaynor,
DeleteLets face it tayter, avan idea that there's a bit o, snobery involved all this Cheshire tripe.
A lorra my towns folk iz gerrin or av gorra bit peas above sticks over this mix up with the county boundaries.But the truth come out when they open their mouths, For example, Warrington:
Hiya Deb,ar yer cummin up town t,market t, get sum spuds, quick gerront buz an lets be doowin.
South of the Mersey: Oh, hello Penelope, how are you?is Percy well? I say, here comes the Wilmslow bus shall we go to town and buy some jolly old new potatoes, oh I do hope that they have washed the soil off them, i can't stand the thought of that horrid soil being on my new gloves.
You are quite right Gaynor about the the first earlies being called "New potatoes"As I remember the chipchops used to put their prices up because they said they were new potatoes.
Hiya Bryan,
DeleteI Laughed out loud when I read your comparison.Its the first time I've heard snobbery and taters mentioned in the same breath :-). Those of us born in Lancashire know who we are and are proud of it.Other people are proud of their roots. It does grind when some folk talk in that affected way,it takes standard English to another level!It's so over the top you can't take it seriously. Dont get cynical Bryan.We know our boundary :-).
Do you say bus or buz? Do you know what you'd have if you had a twenty oner?
Spoke to our son the other day on skype(I.T. skills on the up) I asked him if he still wrote for two websites. He replied "Only via twitter like". It sounded strange to think he would say "like". Wheres that from?
Hello Gaynor,
DeleteEee, gaynor am not gunna get clinical,I never duz.Fact iz sum folks gets historical wen yer tell em that they downt live in spud land.
Did you know that that them little uns as is born in Warrington north of the Mersey iz Lancastrians.
Hi Gaynor
ReplyDeleteYou keep asking Bryan about a 'twenty oner' but he's not taking you up on it. If you asked me, I would say a conker, but I can't remember owning one that was that good
Yorick
Hiya Yorick, nice to hear from you again.
DeleteYes a twenty oner could have been a conker.Your conker would earn more points as destroyed others and also took any points the loser may have had(thats how I remember the game anyway). This twenty oner is on the buses theme we were talking about.Thats a clue :-).
Remember when there used to be clippys on the buses? They would click in your fare,twirl a rotating handle on the side of their machine and a ticket would appear off a continuous roll of paper. On the ticket there was a set of numbers(4 I think). If these numbers totaled 21 we children called it a twenty oner and it was considered lucky. Some of us collected all the twenty oners we got.It was also another thing to swap or give to a best friend.
DeleteHello gaynor
DeleteThanks for the reminder, bus tickets, eee, I downt noow.We used t, fold them and blow down the an mek a orrible row.If you got ont bus at when the conductor was changin iz ticket reel y,could get the old reel wiv a red line down the middle
I have a bad time with this site.Sometimes the cursor does not work and I can't back space or I loose it all together. And sometimes everything disapears from the box.
Frantic movements
DeleteShe wuz runnin round lie,k sum-one not right.
Why are brushes daft?
Iz az daaft az a brush
Warnings
Don't cummit mayt
Derogatory terms
Eeez proper gormless
Exhortations to eat or drink
Shurrup an gerrit down yer neck
Gerrit et! thez newt else
Exhortations to be quiet.
Shut yer gob!(My dad hated that expression)
Lost expressions
DeleteYears ago the Redifusion man came from Wigan to mend our telly.He asked my Mum what piggin meant because he said that in Warrington folk used the word quite a lot, like "the piggin telly's broke"I think it was a sort of soft explietive.
What do you think Gaynor?
Naughty boys;
Eez a likkle newt!
Eez a badun
eez a likkle monkey
Hiya everyone. Here are some more sayings relating to "build":
ReplyDelete'Eez gerrin' that tall 'eez outgrowin' 'is strength".
"Yer that thin if yer turn sidewards an stick yer tongue out yer'd look like a zip".
'Er bum's that big yer cud use 'er knickers fer sails"
"eez that thin if 'e was goin' over a grid eed fall down it".
"Shis gerrin like side of 'ouse".
Farm yard animals' names do seem to be popular as terms of endearment and explietives dont they Bryan. Pig,Cow,Duck.Chicken,Chick,Cock,Hen(further north I think).Piggin was used more often in the past I think. "Get" is another word along the same lines which has become more acceptable. Our neighbour had been waiting for ages for his landlord to come and replace his windows. He said "E 'as'nt shown 'is face yet,the get".
I just wanted to "bagsy" the 200th. post.
ReplyDelete